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Thread: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

  1. #1
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    "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    02/08/07
    Last edited by Ga_Red; 02-08-2007 at 01:18 AM.

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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    "Those writing this article are embarassing themselves..."

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    I don't like fantasy ball or the trade

    Article proven incorrect.
    Go Gators!

  5. #4
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    From the article...

    Nationally, the deal was generally panned, but many of those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits who can't see the wisdom of trading two everyday players for two relievers, neither of whom figures to close games and get saves, at least this season.

    But reality, which often runs contrary to the fantasy world, said the Reds needed to do something, and that they couldn't wait another couple of weeks to see if anything better or less expensive presented itself nearer the trade deadline.


    He shouldn't have used the term "nitwits". An inappropriate term that lessens the general message/point of the article IMO. The majority of people who particpate in FB are FAR from being nitwits (but just the opposite IMO). But overall, he is correct, in principle, in what he is stating.

    Even Bill James, in the past, has said some very unkind things about Rotisserie League Baseball adherents.

    As stated... reality often runs contrary to the fantasy world.

    I enjoy FB. Not playing it this year due to personal commitments, but overall it's alot of fun.

    But it is nothing like the real game of baseball as far as running an organization, and the many intangibles involved.

    There are some things you cannot overcome in the real world (ex: player contracts, budget constraints/salary) that are not inclusive to FB.

    Again - as a fan, it's alot of fun to be in a league, have a premium subscription to Baseball Prospectus, a copy of Lee's Sabermetrics Encyclopedia (all of which I possess), and analyze/critique the game. And guys like James and Okrent have created insightful new ways of examining the game.

    It's all about the fan (today's fan especially) getting involved.... and I mean really involved.... as compared to the casual fan.

    Fans are closer to the game than ever before, and you have to give the two mentioned men above alot of credit for that.

    But some (not labeling or generalizing all) seem to think that just because they participate in the above, and have success - that that translates into a formula that would make them a successful manager or GM in the real world of MLB.

    Dan Okrent's game recast the fans as autocratic owners.... "There was a huge amount of envy involved," he says now. "I felt, 'Damn it, why do they get to own baseball teams? They don't know anymore than we do. They just happen to be rich because they inherited it or they fell into something. We could do it, too and we could do it just as well.' "

    And that is the type of mentality/attitude seen at times.

    It was stated on this forum a couple years or so ago, by one individual, that they could build a team/take the Reds to the post-season on a 30 Mil budget using the same system that proved successful in FB.

    It's that type of "arrogance", and that many of those who are running organizations are somehow buffons and don't know what they are doing, that turns people off.

    And that is where I respectfully disagree.
    Last edited by GAC; 07-15-2006 at 06:31 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    I don't like fantasy ball or the trade

    Article proven incorrect.
    But you're an anomaly. An irregularity which may be difficult to explain using existing rules or theory.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    That's why I don't go to rotoworld for trade analysis.

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    Disclaimer on the article's writer...

    He is Cleveland-born... an admitted Browns fan and backer.

    That's all...
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  9. #8
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    I wouldn't know how to play fantasy baseball if you clubbed my orbital bone with a fungo.

    But I thought name-calling was verboten on Redszone. :

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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    Sean McClelland you are hereby officially warned that name calling is in violation of Redszone's rules. Any further such violations of Redszone's rules will result in progressive discipline.

    Have a better day
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  11. #10
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    GAC, what on earth are you talking about? No one has ever tried to imply that running a real organization is anything like playing fantasy baseball. Anyone who would ever try to say as much is a fool.

    And yes, there are some people running organizations who don't know what they're doing (see O'Brien, Dan). It's the same way in the business world. There are plenty of people in high ranking positions within companies who don't know what they're doing. It happens. It's part of the inexact science of personnel evaluation. Some people are able to fool people into believing they are great at what they do, but there comes a time when they have to actually prove it without any smoke or mirrors to help and they get exposed. I'm not suggesting it's a large percentage of the people, but it's not entirely uncommon. And I see nothing at all arrogant about having a viewpoint on things that differs from these so-called experts. If you've got the ability to think and you understand the subject matter, it's perfectly reasonable to evaluate decisions made by high ranking people and feel that they're wrong. According to your definition, anytime you have a opinion that differs from someone in a high ranking position in baseball, you're arrogant because they must know what they're doing. You've basically just said that they're always right by virtue of their job title. If that's not what you're saying then you've implied that people like you or me just aren't smart enough to evaluate the wisdom of decisions made by these people. It's one or the other. If you've ever questioned a manager or GM, and I know you have, then you fit the definition of arrogant that you laid out in your post above.

    Sorry GAC, but business leaders make mistakes, and plenty of those mistakes can be spotted the second they're made by people who have knowledge of the industry or business they're in. I'm not going to assume that they must be right because they hold the position and I don't. And the notion that somehow people like you or I aren't smart enough to form an opinion or understand the implications of things such as baseball trades irritates me a little. You said these exaact same things, almost word for word, on the moves made by Dan O'Brien.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  12. #11
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    It rarely ceases to amaze me how there is apparently no requirement that a reporter know anything about a subject before writing an article about it. The trade may or may not work out, but, at the very least, legitimate questions can be raised about the trade, and those doing the questioning are hardly nitwits.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #12
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    From the article...
    Even Bill James, in the past, has said some very unkind things about Rotisserie League Baseball adherents.
    I find this statement quite intriguing. Fantasy Leaguers have spent millions of dollars on his literature.
    .

  14. #13
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    It rarely ceases to amaze me how there is apparently no requirement that a reporter know anything about a subject before writing an article about it. The trade may or may not work out, but, at the very least, legitimate questions can be raised about the trade, and those doing the questioning are hardly nitwits.
    Exactly. These things aren't black and white. I didn't like this trade at all, but I'm also smart enough to realize that there was a rationale behind it and I'm not the only one capable of forming a reasonable opinion and those who see it differently aren't being irrational. It drives me nuts when people try to pigeon hole people into a certain group just because they see things a different way, like the idea that if you didn't like this trade, then you must be....A, B, or C. Like it's not possible to look on a trade like this one and reasonable come to the opinion that it wasn't good for the Reds. And if you do then you're being arrogant and you're implying that you could do better or that WK doesn't know what he's doing.

    Did Duquette know what he was doing when he traded Kazmir to the D-Rays for a very average injury prone pitcher when they really weren't in the race to begin with? Was it arrogant for Mets fans to question that move when it was made. How about for Giants fans who traded Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano to the Twins for Pierzynski?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  15. #14
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    The Reds needed to do something, it remains to be seen if this trade was what needed to be done.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #15
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: "...those doing the panning are fantasy-baseball nitwits..."

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    It rarely ceases to amaze me how there is apparently no requirement that a reporter know anything about a subject before writing an article about it.
    Being friends with and knowing a number of the DDN sportswriters you have no idea how true that statement is. Some aren't even sports fans.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand


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