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View Poll Results: Hit or Error?

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  • Hit

    61 59.22%
  • Error

    42 40.78%
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Thread: Hit or Error?

  1. #16
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2
    I don't believe it can be ruled both a hit and an error because it was a single play. It's either one or the other, and in this case it was correctly ruled a hit because Denorfia would have beaten the throw even if Barmes fields it cleanly.

    I believe you could rule it both, as a single if you think he would have beaten the throw would only allows runners to advance one base, and the error allows the runner from second to score.

    But I agree with Kitty and would call it an error.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    a major league shortstop should have caught the ball. would he have thrown him out? that's another question.
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  4. #18
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    I am sure the official scorer wanted to score that an error but he did not want to face the wrath of Chris Denorfia.
    I agree, and this is a problem in Major League Baseball. If Selig et al are truly as concerned with the sanctity of the game's written historical record, they will take steps to standardize official scoring around the league and assure autonomy of the scorers from the players.

    One idea would be to cut down the number of official scorers to 15 (plus alternates) and have them travel with the umpiring crews. Yes, this would cost more money in travel and salary headcount, but would be worth it. Further, if baseball ever elects to take on instant replay, this person could double in that capacity.

    I think that ball is an error. It's not fair to Brian Fuentes that he was charged with two earned runs.
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  5. #19
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    One things for sure, if you see that play 100 times over, the official scorer will rule it a hit 100 times.

    And he could certainly have ruled it a hit and error if he felt that Barmess should have come up with it but Denorfia would have been safe anyway.

    The official scorers view was that it was a very tough play for the SS to make. The SS basically has to come in on that play. Because of the nature of the hit, you have no idea how it will bounce when it hits the ground because of the spin on the ball. It sometimes bounces high, sometimes it will simply scoot low. The fielder has to simply put his glove down and hope it bounces into his glove.He has no time to react as to how high the bounce will be, because on a hit like that, you usually don't get a true hop.It scooted low, under his glove.

    I think the official scorer made the right call. At least it's consistent with what is always called in that situation.

  6. #20
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    It's not fair to Brian Fuentes that he was charged with two earned runs.
    Considering he walked one guy and hit 2 others, I don't have alot of sympathy for Mr. Fuentes. He gave himself no margin of error. You'll lose alot of games if you tempt faith too much. That's the "law of averages" in baseball.

  7. #21
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2
    I don't believe it can be ruled both a hit and an error because it was a single play. It's either one or the other, and in this case it was correctly ruled a hit because Denorfia would have beaten the throw even if Barmes fields it cleanly.
    Yep. That's the way I see it.

  8. #22
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    I think it is a hit. You have to give Deno credit for making contact. How many times have we seen Reds srike out in this situation.

    I watched the end of the Nationals game last night, and Felipe Lopez struck out twice with bases loaded and two outs. Ended up with 3 ks, 7 LOB, 2 BB, and 1 single. But did terrible when it mattered. (Also interesting to note that the Nationals bullpen gave up a run in the 8th and 9th to lose the game...lol)
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  9. #23
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    I would have given him a hit, rbi, then an E6 allowing the 2nd run to score.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  10. #24
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2
    I don't believe it can be ruled both a hit and an error because it was a single play. It's either one or the other, and in this case it was correctly ruled a hit because Denorfia would have beaten the throw even if Barmes fields it cleanly.
    Yes you can.

    You see guys lay down bunt all the time that get thrown away that they rule a single an error allowing the runner to move up a base.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  11. #25
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    Yes you can.

    You see guys lay down bunt all the time that get thrown away that they rule a single an error allowing the runner to move up a base.
    They would rule it a hit if the fielder has no opportunity to make the play and charge the error because the errant throw allows the batter to take an extra base. That's two seperate scoring decisions that have to be made. That's not the case last night, because Barmes didn't attempt any throws.
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  12. #26
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    i dont see how you could rule it a hit AND an error to allow the 2nd run. Barmes made one attempt to field it. Its not like he fielded it then threw the ball away allowing the run to score. I believe the only way you could score that play would be a hit OR an error to allow 2 men to score. And after watching baseball tonight and seeing the play I fell it should have been an error causing 2 men to score. Denorfia would not have beat the trow period.

  13. #27
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2
    They would rule it a hit if the fielder has no opportunity to make the play and charge the error because the errant throw allows the batter to take an extra base. That's two seperate scoring decisions that have to be made. That's not the case last night, because Barmes didn't attempt any throws.
    Yes, but they could have ruled it even if he fielded it cleanly he would have beat the throw to 1st, and the error allowed Wise to go from 3rd to scoring.

    I could be wrong though.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  14. #28
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Regarding the hit and error conversation, if you see it as a hit because Deno would have beaten it out regardless, you could then give him an error by not fielding it cleanly, which would have kept the runner on second from advancing more than one base, IMO.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  15. #29
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    from my vantage point in section 131, i immediately thought error...so I am going to stick with that...but what the heck, what an ending and what a celebration in the stands....

  16. #30
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    Yes, but they could have ruled it even if he fielded it cleanly he would have beat the throw to 1st, and the error allowed Wise to go from 3rd to scoring.

    I could be wrong though.
    Like dieselman44 pointed out though, Barmes only made one attempt at fielding the ball. That's the play the scorer had to make the ruling on. It's either ruled a hit or an error but not both. Since Barmes didn't make any other attempts at fielding/throwing the ball, there wasn't anything for the scorer to make a seperate decision on.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.


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