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View Poll Results: Hit or Error?

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  • Hit

    61 59.22%
  • Error

    42 40.78%
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Thread: Hit or Error?

  1. #31
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Bonehead play by the shortstop.....but that's why the Red Sox will win their division and not the Yankees. The Yankees have more boneheads on their team, while the Red Sox have a tremendous defensive team.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

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  3. #32
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    A more important question might be, does Denorfia look like this guy?
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
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  4. #33
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornon
    Single, E6 allowing the second run to score?

    Definitely a single. Even if Barmes fields it cleanly, I think he's gotta put it in his pocket and then deal with Wise. IMO, Denorfia beats it out if he goes to first. If Barmes fields it cleanly, then I think Wise gets out via rundown.

    I can see the argument either way.

  5. #34
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    single and an error. looked like Denorfia would have beat the throw (Barmes is slow and has a poor arm) so 1 run would have scored. Wise scoring should be the error. although it should be noted that Wise and Deno are probably the only guys who score from second on that.
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  6. #35
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by RBA
    Well, I don't know if people are joking or not about Denorfia. But they seem to have unrealistic expectation out of him.

    I just said the "hit" was not clutch, more lucky than anything else. I don't know anyone that says it was "clutch". Can I just state the obvious whitout getting the third degree?
    It just seemed out of place. Especially if it was not in response to anyone.

    A random announcement that Denorfia wasn't clutch just seems odd when you say nobody ever said he was.

    I honestly have not noticed many unreal expectations placed on Denorfia. Seems a good portion around here are upset that we traded Austin "Babe Ruth" Kearns.

    Denorfia seems like the forgotten man in all of this.

    By the way, since when is the question, "who said it was?", the third degree?

    You said Denorfia wasn't clutch. I said, who said he was and you call that the third degree?

    Yikes!

  7. #36
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2
    They would rule it a hit if the fielder has no opportunity to make the play and charge the error because the errant throw allows the batter to take an extra base. That's two seperate scoring decisions that have to be made. That's not the case last night, because Barmes didn't attempt any throws.
    Hmmm...I disagree. On the play in question, Barmes could have done 4 things (well, maybe more), and this is what you would assume would happen as far as runs scoring:

    1. Fielded the ball and recorded an out - 0 runs
    2. Fielded the ball and held it - 1 run
    3. Fielded the ball and thrown late to first - 1 or maybe 2 runs
    4. Missed the ball - 2 runs

    The scorer apparently felt that "ordinary effort" would not have allowed Barmes to field the ball cleanly. I would have ruled "single and error" on the play. From here, it looks to me like ordinary effort would have allowed Barmes to catch the ball.

    If he gets the ball and just holds it, I've got a single with no error

    Now, if he throws to first, gets it cleanly to the first-baseman, and the runner comes around from second to score anyway, then I've got a single, a fielder's choice, and no error.

  8. #37
    Member keeganbrick's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Even if Barmes got that ball I dont think he would have thrown him out at first base.
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  9. #38
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by keeganbrick
    Even if Barmes got that ball I dont think he would have thrown him out at first base.
    Yep, it was close enough that you give the batter the benefit of the doubt in scoring the play. But you still can give the error for not catching the ball and preventing the run.

  10. #39
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    I agree with Kitty and RFS62. Error. You should make that play as a big league shortstop. Right on it, Jpup. Have to catch it before you can throw it, and I think the speculation of "could he have beat it out" ends there.
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  11. #40
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC
    I agree with Kitty and RFS62. Error. You should make that play as a big league shortstop.
    yes you should. but Barmes being a shortstop is not all that disimilar than if you tried to make Russel Branyan a shortstop.
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  12. #41
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by KySteveH
    Hmmm...I disagree. On the play in question, Barmes could have done 4 things (well, maybe more), and this is what you would assume would happen as far as runs scoring:

    1. Fielded the ball and recorded an out - 0 runs
    2. Fielded the ball and held it - 1 run
    3. Fielded the ball and thrown late to first - 1 or maybe 2 runs
    4. Missed the ball - 2 runs

    The scorer apparently felt that "ordinary effort" would not have allowed Barmes to field the ball cleanly. I would have ruled "single and error" on the play. From here, it looks to me like ordinary effort would have allowed Barmes to catch the ball.

    If he gets the ball and just holds it, I've got a single with no error

    Now, if he throws to first, gets it cleanly to the first-baseman, and the runner comes around from second to score anyway, then I've got a single, a fielder's choice, and no error.
    Thanks for the input Steve but I still don't understand how you can rule it a "single and error" on the same play. It seems to me that the scorer felt "ordinary effort" wouldn't have allowed Barmes to get Deno at 1B and scored it a hit accordingly. The fact the runner scored from second base is inconsequential here.

    1. That was never going to happen. Barmes had no chance to make an out anywhere, even if he fields the ball cleanly. Philips scores. Wise and Encarnacion were going on contact and both would have been safe easily. Screech has an infield single on a slow two hopper to short everytime.

    2. That's what Barmes should have done IMO. He should have realized the tying run was going to score no matter what he did. He tried to do too much and it proved costly, but mental mistakes or misjudgements aren't scored as errors.

    3. Mark Berry was sending Wise around third base as soon as the ball got passed Barmes. If Barmes throws to first, IMO Berry is still sending Wise around third base and the second run still scores. It's credited as an RBI because Barmes would have thrown to the wrong base.

    4. This is what actually happened. The official scorer has a couple of decisions to make here. Did Barmes muff the ball, when ordinary effort would have resulted in an out? Score it an error. Was the ball hit with so much force or too slowly that Barmes had no opportunity to make a play? Score it a hit. A single play with only one correct scoring decision here. It's either an error or a base hit with the runner scoring from second base.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
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  13. #42
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2
    Thanks for the input Steve but I still don't understand how you can rule it a "single and error" on the same play.
    Okay, think of a simpler example. No one on, doesn't matter how many outs. Ball hit to left field on two hops, left fielder muffs it, and as it rolls away, the batter-runner goes to second. You would score that a single and an error allowing the extra base, right? That's exactly what happened last night. A single was hit which allowed each runner to advance one base. Also the infielder botched the catch, which allowed the runner (who would normally only have made it to 3rd) go home.

  14. #43
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    yes you should. but Barmes being a shortstop is not all that disimilar than if you tried to make Russel Branyan a shortstop.
    Rockies problem, not ours, nor the official scorer's.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

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  15. #44
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Quote Originally Posted by KySteveH
    Okay, think of a simpler example. No one on, doesn't matter how many outs. Ball hit to left field on two hops, left fielder muffs it, and as it rolls away, the batter-runner goes to second. You would score that a single and an error allowing the extra base, right? That's exactly what happened last night. A single was hit which allowed each runner to advance one base. Also the infielder botched the catch, which allowed the runner (who would normally only have made it to 3rd) go home.
    Three pages into this discussion and the lightbulb finally goes off. I just want to right now.

    Somewhere between reading your post, watching the Lo Duca error tonight, and then reading the rules again for about the 100th time; it suddenly became clear what you and others were saying about scoring it an error and a hit. Thanks for the patience and the explanations.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

  16. #45
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Hit or Error?

    Speaking of errors. Did they ever change Phillips from Sunday?
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.


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