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Thread: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

  1. #16
    Member kheidg-'s Avatar
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    In case anyone noticed, this thread was supposed to be about Wagner and not Kearns/Lopez - there are about 100 other threads dedicated to them.

    As far as Wagner is concerned, he pitched two scoreless innings last night and his line for the Zephyrs is now
    Code:
    Team	From	To	W	L	ERA	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	SO
    NO 07/14	07/19	0	0	9.00	3	0	0	0	0	4.0	6	4	4	0	2	1

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  3. #17
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    since he made the majors so quickly, Wagner's going to get one more minor league option-- is that correct?

  4. #18
    GO XAVIER! toledodan's Avatar
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    i think once you make the majors you have 3 option years.
    there's nothing like bowling a 300 game! 13 now and retired.


    Ricky henderson has a higher OBP than C. patterson and he's retired. C. Trent 6-14-2008

  5. #19
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by toledodan
    i think once you make the majors you have 3 option years.
    my recollection is that your team can get a fourth option if you make the majors within about three years.

    I'm not sure why I have this recollection.

  6. #20
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by toledodan
    i think once you make the majors you have 3 option years.
    JaxRed will be along at some point to lay it all out, but I think it's actually from the point you're put on the 40-man roster.

  7. #21
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    all right, you made me look it up. Here's BA's take

    How do options work?

    When a player is added to a 40-man roster for the first time, the major league team is permitted three optional assignments of his contract, or three "option years." This gives them the option to assign that player to the minor leagues without requiring him to clear waivers. For each season thereafter in which the player is assigned to a minor league team, one option is used up.

    When a player is out of options, he can still be assigned to the minor leagues, but first he must clear waivers.

    A player can receive a fourth option if he has less than five seasons of pro experience. Draftees who immediately sign a major league contract will qualify unless they reach the majors quickly and stick there. Otherwise, they'll have their three options exhausted after their first three years in pro ball. A season is defined as any year in which the player spends 90 days on the active list. Short-season and Rookie leagues don't last 90 calendar days, so a player assigned to those leagues for an entire year won't accrue a season of pro experience. Also if a player has a long-term injury, he usually won't be credited for a season that year. (The exception is if he goes on the disabled list after spending 60 days on an active list, in which case the DL time counts as service time.)


    if I'm looking at WMP's career correctly, he signed a major league contract in '99 and was optioned in '99, '00,'01 and '02.

  8. #22
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Really, Wagner was a good thing for Bowden to ask for. Bowden knew that Wagner was buried in AAA here and the Reds didn't value him. Of course, the Reds loss of confidence in Wagner was justified, don't get me wrong.

    Getting Wagner thrown in the deal is like Washington getting a free #1 draft pick, because Wagner still has potential to capture the magic. In contrast, the guys we got thrown in are a potential utility man and a 20 year old in single A who already has had Doc Hollywood cut him up.

    I doubt that Wagner rebounds and becomes an impact player, but it was a smart move to ask for him. It's analogous to getting Phillips on the cheap. Naturally, the majority of these type of moves do not work out, but it's a good gamble to take.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #23
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Getting Wagner thrown in the deal is like Washington getting a free #1 draft pick
    no, it's not. That's like saying getting Brandon Larson is getting a free no. 1 pick

  10. #24
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    ryan wagner = cj nitkowski = ariel prieto
    Go BLUE!!!

  11. #25
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Faces on the Field: Ryan Wagner
    Big right-hander 'relieved' to get fresh start with new organization
    By Kevin Yanik / MLB.com
    07/21/06

    METAIRIE, La. -- Don't mess with a young pitcher's mechanics. That may be a matter of debate among coaches, but it's the gospel to at least one prospect.

    It didn't take the Cincinnati Reds long to start adjusting reliever Ryan Wagner's mechanics and pitch repertoire after they made him the 14th overall selection in the 2003 First-Year Player Draft. Based on his early success, the Reds rushed him to the big leagues that same season, making the 6-foot-4, 225-pound right-hander the first player from that draft class to reach the Majors.

    The early progress did not continue, though, and the Reds cut ties with Wagner on July 13, when they traded him to the Washington Nationals along with Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez as part of an eight-player deal.

    "[The Reds] were trying to make me do a bunch of things that kind of took me out of my element, and took me away from the pitcher that I was," Wagner says. "They tried to make me something that I wasn't."

    For example, Wagner never got completely comfortable slinging some of the pitches the Reds had him work into his arsenal.

    "When you're not 100 percent committed to whatever you're throwing," Wagner says, "that can hurt you."

    Wagner, 24, doesn't have to worry about that anymore. No more funky arm slots. No further disagreement on pitch selection.

    At Triple-A New Orleans, he'll be able to pitch his way.

    "We're going to work on a few things," Wagner says. "They want me to throw my game. They want me to throw how I want to throw. As a pitcher, you can't ask for anything more than that."

    New Orleans pitching coach Steve McCatty agrees. Slight mechanical adjustments aren't necessarily problematic, but a mechanical overhaul can cause trouble for any up-and-coming pitcher.

    "[Wagner's] got to feel comfortable with what he's throwing," McCatty says, "otherwise you're not going to get the best out of him."

    The Reds probably tried to get the best out of Wagner too quickly. He spent parts of three seasons in the Majors, where he compiled a combined 8-4 record, 4.69 ERA and 101 strikeouts over 119 innings.

    Not bad numbers, except that his ERA rose each season. In his rookie season in '03, he allowed just four earned runs over 21 2/3 innings for an ERA of 1.66. In '04, Wagner finished with a 4.70 ERA (51 2/3 IP) and had a career-high 6.11 ERA (45 2/3 IP) last year.

    This season, Wagner was more or less duplicating his 2005 effort with Triple-A Louisville, where he completed the first half with 28 strikeouts and a 6.34 ERA in 38 1/3 innings (35 appearances).

    Being encouraged to work with an assortment of arm slots might be at the root of Wagner's results. Nationals General Manager Jim Bowden wants Wagner to pitch the way he did during a successful career at the University of Houston.

    "I talked to Jim, who drafted him in Cincinnati, and he wants [Wagner] to go back to that arm slot," McCatty says. "There are some videos that we are going to get, and I kind of remember where it was vaguely, and we'll just let him go back and be comfortable where that slot was for him.

    "Wherever that may be is where he might be successful."

    Some pitchers can use a variety of arm slots successfully. Hall of Famer Luis Tiant and Mets right-hander Pedro Martinez have proven that approach can work. Others simply need to pitch in the slot that feels most comfortable. Wagner might be one of those players. And he still has a few pitches -- particularly a sinker -- that impress McCatty.

    "His sink drops like a brick," says McCatty, who watched Wagner toss a bullpen session the day after the Nationals acquired him. "It's really heavy."

    McCatty will let Wagner toss that sinker, blaze a chest-high fastball and tinker with a change up -- using the arm slot that feels natural to him. Otherwise, how else would Wagner rediscover the form that made him a first-round pick three seasons ago?

    "If somebody has the conviction to make a pitch, I'll let him do it," McCatty says. "Right or wrong, you have to see if they can do it. The best way you learn is not by your successes so much as by your failures."

    A reinvigorated Wagner is hoping to prove that conventional wisdom correct in short order.

    Kevin Yanik is an associate reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues or its clubs.

  12. #26
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    I'd be interested to see if it'd help him if he was sent down to AA too. Talk about a demotion though...The bigs to AAA to AA. That's not something you see everyday.

  13. #27
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton
    no, it's not. That's like saying getting Brandon Larson is getting a free no. 1 pick
    No, because Wagner actually had a little bit of success in the majors.

    Unless Wagner is hurt, he has potential to be a useful bullpen arm.

    In contrast, I knew when I saw Larson playing in AA that he would never be a good major league player. First of all, his defense totally sucked. ( Konerko played a better 3b, IMO, at least based on what I saw. ) Therefore, he'd have to hit enough to move to LF or 1b in order to stick in the majors, and I didn't think that was going to happen.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #28
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Wagner's had one good year out of the last 25. Even Larson hits better than that.

    he's also almost out of options. Which makes working with him like buying an old Corvette-- do I want to spend time restoring it only to see it driven away by my wife's divorce attorney?

  15. #29
    Member kheidg-'s Avatar
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    Well, he certainly hasn't been getting it done at AAA, although i suppose it has been a bit of improvement.
    Code:
    Ryan Wagner: Individual Stats (Pitching)
    Team	From	To	W	L	ERA	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	SO
    L'Ville  04/06	07/13	1	3	6.34	35	0	0	0	1	38.1	55	29	27	3	14	28
    NO   07/14	07/27	0	0	5.14	5	0	0	0	0	7.0	7	4	4	0	2	4

  16. #30
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    Re: Wagner lighting it up at New Orleans

    The guy has thrown six scoreless innings after his first appearance for New Orleans.


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