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Thread: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    But the Reds couldn't make the playoffs with the team they had, and now they can.
    With that one sentence, it pretty much summed up the trade for me, and why I've been behind it since the beginning. It really boils down to two ways of looking at things... Would you mortgage some of your future to make it to the playoffs this year? Or do you hold onto them assuming they'll be huge and possibly give you several playoff years later?

    Personally, I believe you don't pick your year to be a contender. It picks you and you have to go for it. We are a better team in 2006 now than we were. We needed help and Krivsky got it. Our lineup is fluid enough and resilient enough to replace Lopez and Kearns.
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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceking
    With that one sentence, it pretty much summed up the trade for me, and why I've been behind it since the beginning. It really boils down to two ways of looking at things... Would you mortgage some of your future to make it to the playoffs this year? Or do you hold onto them assuming they'll be huge and possibly give you several playoff years later?

    Personally, I believe you don't pick your year to be a contender. It picks you and you have to go for it. We are a better team in 2006 now than we were. We needed help and Krivsky got it. Our lineup is fluid enough and resilient enough to replace Lopez and Kearns.

    Krivsky really deserves credit for taking a chance with this deal. He could see we were going nowhere with the bullpen we had and made a bold move....one viewed as unpopular to many. He will be judged by the long-term results and not the particular battles along the way.

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    ya, but now you are running the likes of Clayton/Castro out there everyday.
    I think having Yan, White, Hammond, Burns, ECT off the 25 man roster and running out Castro/Clayton combo produces more Wins then Running out there those pitchers and having a Lopez/Kearns in the field.

    IMO.
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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsMan3203
    I think having Yan, White, Hammond, Burns, ECT off the 25 man roster and running out Castro/Clayton combo produces more Wins then Running out there those pitchers and having a Lopez/Kearns in the field.

    IMO.
    I don't really disagree with you there, but it's left to be seen if Majewski and Bray can pitch as good as we think.

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    I don't really disagree with you there, but it's left to be seen if Majewski and Bray can pitch as good as we think.
    Hey, i don't think we can get any worse then we were at the 1st part of the month.

    We'll find out soon enough... This next road trip is going to be a testing point... Hopfully these guys pull through it and make a run.
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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    This trade definitely provided a good meduim for me to reconsider how I evaluate trades. While I think we certaintly lost in the "overall value" comparison, I think the team is better for it.

    You can complain about the opportunity cost of this deal (I have), but unfortunately it's tough to criticize the trade that isn't made, even when that non-trade is more harmful to the club (see the Dan O'Brien administration for more details...). Krivsky found a trade that made the club better. He knew it wasn't the perfect deal. He knew he was parting with a lot of value. But he also knew the old axiom "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush".

    He knew he needed to make a trade for bullpen help. He tried multiple places and this was the best he could do. Not acquiring bullpen help simply was not an option. Maybe he gave up too much; time will tell. But as Olney pointed out, doing nothing would've been the wrong move too. Given the failure of O'Brien to act at all, I take this trade as a positive sign.

    I'd much rather the right idea with mediocre execution than the right idea and no execution at all.
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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Buster states how I felt the whole time. This team now has the horses t oclose games with that 1 run lead. Kearns and Lopez will earn a huge payday next year and now Bowden can have them. Maybe he will over pay those two in the off season like he did for Paul Wilson, Sean Casey and Danny Graves.

    I can see it now in the headlines "Bowden signs ex-Reds to multi. year deals"
    "Lopez gets $9 million per year for 4 years and Kearns gets $10 for 5 years."

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    ya, but now you are running the likes of Clayton/Castro out there everyday.
    Well we need the defesive part almost as bad as we needed bullpen help. Not to mention Castro's great hitting since he arrived in Cincy, wouldnt it be something if that continued.
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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick
    But as Olney pointed out, doing nothing would've been the wrong move too.
    I'm not sure I agree with this. Doing nothing would have condemned us to a 3rd place finish this year, but I'm also fairly certain that better--and cheaper--relief help could have been found during the offseason. I like the fact that Krivsky has shown that he's not afraid to make decisions--trades, DFAs, etc.--that could ultimately benefit the team. But I'm not too keen on the acquire-help-at-any-cost mentality that seemed to drive this deal. Part of being a GM is recognizing the shortcomings of your team, yes. But another part is understanding when to address those needs. I think Krivsky's got the first part down pat, I'm not so sure about the second.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by keeganbrick
    Not to mention Castro's great hitting since he arrived in Cincy, wouldnt it be something if that continued.
    it wouldn't only be something, it'd be unheard of.

    Check back in a month, he'll be hitting .250, slugging at or below .300, and will have proudly reclaimed the title of lineup blackhole. I'm glad he's been productive thus far, but don't expect this to continue.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    I'm not sure I agree with this. Doing nothing would have condemned us to a 3rd place finish this year, but I'm also fairly certain that better--and cheaper--relief help could have been found during the offseason. I like the fact that Krivsky has shown that he's not afraid to make decisions--trades, DFAs, etc.--that could ultimately benefit the team. But I'm not too keen on the acquire-help-at-any-cost mentality that seemed to drive this deal. Part of being a GM is recognizing the shortcomings of your team, yes. But another part is understanding when to address those needs. I think Krivsky's got the first part down pat, I'm not so sure about the second.
    My fear is that if you constantly white-flag your seasons, consistently defer the act of fierce pennant contention, you never gird your troops for real battle. Players are humans and teams that taste the hunt usually are better for it.

    Otherwise, you end up like the Brewers or the Expos. White flag after white flag after white flag. It takes its toll on the zeitgeist of an organization. I firmly believe that.

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    My fear is that if you constantly white-flag your seasons, consistently defer the act of fierce pennant contention, you never gird your troops for real battle. Players are humans and teams that taste the hunt usually are better for it.

    Otherwise, you end up like the Brewers or the Expos. White flag after white flag after white flag. It takes its toll on the zeitgeist of an organization. I firmly believe that.
    I completely agree. It's all about picking your battles though. maybe this deal eventually works out--who knows? I just hope this team wasn't harmed from competing in '07-'09 due to a deal like this.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    My fear is that if you constantly white-flag your seasons, consistently defer the act of fierce pennant contention, you never gird your troops for real battle. Players are humans and teams that taste the hunt usually are better for it.

    Otherwise, you end up like the Brewers or the Expos. White flag after white flag after white flag. It takes its toll on the zeitgeist of an organization. I firmly believe that.

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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsMan3203
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    Re: Krivsky's deals give Reds a chance - Buster Olney - ESPN Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    My fear is that if you constantly white-flag your seasons, consistently defer the act of fierce pennant contention, you never gird your troops for real battle. Players are humans and teams that taste the hunt usually are better for it.

    Otherwise, you end up like the Brewers or the Expos. White flag after white flag after white flag. It takes its toll on the zeitgeist of an organization. I firmly believe that.
    On the other hand, when you have limited resources to play with, due to a depleted farm system, and you know that your only real sources of value are at the major league level, you simply cannot mortgagage them at a deficit for a shot at competing "right now." You've either got to find a trade that better equalizes the value-return between the players at the ML level or get more prospects in return to restock the farm system with talent that can help you compete down the road. Teams on a budget can't live in the now -- they have to plan for tomorrow, and the year after that because they simply cannot afford to go through periods where the farm system doesn't produce young, cheap talent to build a team around. The Reds are in one of those periods right now.

    The final "judgment" of this deal will be Castellini's willingness to up the payroll for the 2007 season. If Castellini is cool with increasing payroll to go and buy better players to fill the holes at 2B and 1B, get another starting pitcher, and add talent to the bullpen, then this deal isn't so bad. Whatever -- they traded talent, got players they needed in return, made a run and in the offseason, the reload for another shot. Lack of talent in the farm system becomes a mere nuisance at that point, but a nuisance that can be spent around to a certain extent.

    If its going to be business-as-usual this offseason, with the Reds being either outbid or sidelined due to high cost on the effective free agents available, then this deal is total crap because it cost them a chance at competing next year (and the year after, etc.) due to lack of prospect infusion into the dead system.
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