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Thread: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central divisio

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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central divisio

    I compared Kearns vs all the other OF in our division as part of an argument on another board and thought I'd cut and paste here. I would've done everyone in baseball if I had the time As Johnny Footstool pointed out, despite many people's perception, Kearns was one of the more productive OF in baseball. At the time of the trade, Kearns was OPSing 843.

    Better than:

    Jacque Jones (cubs)
    Juan Pierre (cubs)
    matt murton (cubs)
    Burke (Hou, sometimes OF)
    Jason Lane (Hou)
    Tavaras (Hous)
    Preston Wilson (Hous)
    Huff (Hous)
    Clark (Mil)
    Gross (Mil)
    Geoff Jenkins (Mil)
    Burnitz (Pit)
    McGlouth (Pit)
    Edmounds (StL)
    Taguchi (StL)
    Encarcion (StL)
    Griffey (Cin)
    Freel (cin)
    Defornia (cin)


    Not better than:
    Berkman (Hou, sometimes plays OF)
    Carlos Lee (Mil)
    Bay (Pit)
    Dunn (Cin)
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Noticed that the Nats, for some reason, dropped him to 7th in the batting order last night. Still in CF though.

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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central divisio

    Outside of the top 4, the Central doesn't possess what I'd call the most impressive list of OF. Not sure being ranked 5th is much to hang your hat on.
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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central divisio

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    Outside of the top 4, the Central doesn't possess what I'd call the most impressive list of OF. Not sure being ranked 5th is much to hang your hat on.
    Well, I picked the central mainly because it was easier for me to pick the starting OF. The point is, some people act as though Kearns' 834 OPs is easy to replace. It's not. Even though he'll get an arb raise next year, he's still a pretty good value.

    You are welcome to make your own list comparing Kearns vs any division you chose

    I listed Berkman for completeness, even though he is now a 1b.. Compare the salaries of the 4 guys that are out-OPSing Kearns, and the arguement that dumping Kearns gives the team more financial flexiblity is hurt.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I compared Kearns vs all the other OF in our division as part of an argument on another board and thought I'd cut and paste here. I would've done everyone in baseball if I had the time As Johnny Footstool pointed out, despite many people's perception, Kearns was one of the more productive OF in baseball. At the time of the trade, Kearns was OPSing 843.

    Better than:

    Jacque Jones (cubs)
    Juan Pierre (cubs)
    matt murton (cubs)
    Burke (Hou, sometimes OF)
    Jason Lane (Hou)
    Tavaras (Hous)
    Preston Wilson (Hous)
    Huff (Hous)
    Clark (Mil)
    Gross (Mil)
    Geoff Jenkins (Mil)
    Burnitz (Pit)
    McGlouth (Pit)
    Edmounds (StL)
    Taguchi (StL)
    Encarcion (StL)
    Griffey (Cin)
    Freel (cin)
    Defornia (cin)

    As has been stated, this is hardly a list of top-tier OFs. What would be more interesting (don't have the time at the moment) is to take the Reds current OFs, get the combined OPS scores and see how that compares to the other teams in the central. I'm betting that, even sans Kearns, the Reds are at or near the top. Again, this isn't the outfield we imagined when Grif was brought over and Dunn and Kearns were killing the minors, but, then again, we never really saw that outfield reach it's potential anyhow.

    Whether it's the Reds fault or Kearn's fault (or both), the fact is they couldn't get Austin up to the standard that he set for himself after the first year. Maybe it came so easy to him, he figured it wasn't something he'd really have to work hard to achieve. I think now, he is about to learn that it's no longer the case.

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    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central divisio

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    Outside of the top 4, the Central doesn't possess what I'd call the most impressive list of OF. Not sure being ranked 5th is much to hang your hat on.
    Well it is the Reds main competition. being ranked highly in your own division certainly carries some degree of validity, regardless of how good or poor the competition may be.

    The NL as a whole is down right now. It's why the Reds have remained in the thick of the playoff chase.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds
    As has been stated, this is hardly a list of top-tier OFs. What would be more interesting (don't have the time at the moment) is to take the Reds current OFs, get the combined OPS scores and see how that compares to the other teams in the central.
    I disagree with this. Let's just say hypothetically that our OF was Pujolis, Dunn, and Beltran. That would be the top OPS in the division, hands down.
    Would that justify dumping Dunn, just because the other two players bring the OPS of the OF up? The converse is also true. If our OF was 2 Juan Pierres plus Kearns, that shouldn't mean that Kearns is untouchable because the other two OF are bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds
    Whether it's the Reds fault or Kearn's fault (or both), the fact is they couldn't get Austin up to the standard that he set for himself after the first year. Maybe it came so easy to him, he figured it wasn't something he'd really have to work hard to achieve. I think now, he is about to learn that it's no longer the case.
    I agree that Kearns never met the lofty expectations set for him. Still no reason to give him away at much less than his worth though. He's still a very useful player, even if he didn't blossom into an MVP.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds
    As has been stated, this is hardly a list of top-tier OFs.
    But that's also my point.. Guys like Kearns don't grow on trees. Look at what other teams across baseball are running out there.

    It's a myth that it's easy to find corner OF that OPS that hit as well as Kearns does (as implied in the many trade analysis threads here).
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central divisio

    Before I go any further, I'll say that I'm in favor of the spirit of the trade, if not the end result.

    I think it is fair to judge the OF as a whole - just as the bullpen is judged in it's results. The key for me is, did the difference in the bullpen make up for the potential loss in the OF? In my mind, Majewski+Bray far outweighs ANY of our previous BP offerings whereas Denorfia/Freel may not constitute that great of a drop from Kearns.

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    This may have been asked by others, but I wonder what kind of pitching the Reds could have gotten for a package that included Kearns, Lopez, and Casey?

    Bowden, among others, may have given something better than the Reds got for those three.

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    But that's also my point.. Guys like Kearns don't grow on trees. Look at what other teams across baseball are running out there.

    It's a myth that it's easy to find corner OF that OPS that hit as well as Kearns does (as implied in the many trade analysis threads here).
    But you just can't look at that way. MLB is no longer a place where the
    SS is the weakest hitter on the team and the 1B is hitting home runs at a prodigious clip. A team can get fantastic production from any position on the team now. Look at how many homers A-Rod has. David Wright will probably win the MVP this year. But as it stands now in the NL Kearns is overall

    OPS-40th
    SLG-37th
    OBP-47th
    HR's-21st
    RBI's-33rd
    AVG-64th

    A pretty solid player but not exactly setting the world on fire. And he still hasn't done anything for a full season. The Reds traded a solid injury-prone talented outfielder with an attitude problem for a solid reliever which they needed worse than anything. And the Reds have Denorfia and Freel to cover for Kearns and they will.

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath
    But you just can't look at that way. MLB is no longer a place where the
    SS is the weakest hitter on the team and the 1B is hitting home runs at a prodigious clip. A team can get fantastic production from any position on the team now. Look at how many homers A-Rod has. David Wright will probably win the MVP this year. But as it stands now in the NL Kearns is overall

    OPS-40th
    SLG-37th
    OBP-47th
    HR's-21st
    RBI's-33rd
    AVG-64th
    .
    So there's roughly 15 position players on each team in the NL, and 16 teams.. So that's Kearns rank out of 240 players?

    Pretty darn good. If anything, I think you made a better case that Kearns is underrated. That puts Kearns in the top 17% in the league in OPS, and the top 9% in HR. When you consider that Kearns was this team's only RH slugger, that's a steep price to pay for a reliever.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    So there's roughly 15 position players on each team in the NL, and 16 teams.. So that's Kearns rank out of 240 players?
    less than that, they have to be able to qualify for the batting title which takes an average of someithing like 3.1 PA's a game (games played by team, not by player).
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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath
    And the Reds have Denorfia and Freel to cover for Kearns and they will.
    I don't think that this is such the sure thing that people make it out to be. I really don't think that Freel and Denorfia can combine to give the Reds what Kearns did on offense. I also think that having to possibly use Freel more in RF can hurt the team in other spots as I feel Freel is best used all over the diamond. Denorfia hasn't proven anything over AAA, he could turn out to be te next Brandon Larson for all we know. As for Freel I like him and he helps the team but he does so as a part time player. If he has to play everyday than he will not come close to the production that Kearns gave us.

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    Re: At the time of the trade, Kearns had the 4th best OPS among OF in the central div

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    So there's roughly 15 position players on each team in the NL, and 16 teams.. So that's Kearns rank out of 240 players?

    Pretty darn good. If anything, I think you made a better case that Kearns is underrated. That puts Kearns in the top 17% in the league in OPS, and the top 9% in HR. When you consider that Kearns was this team's only RH slugger, that's a steep price to pay for a reliever.

    I would look at against 8 positional starters on each team (which Kearns was). That means that 8 postionals starters x 16 teams = 128 positional starters (I know more than 8 guys typically start regularly for a team, but still its closer than the 15 you gave).

    The Reds could give up the offense, they needed pitching and defense. Hopefully it works.


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