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Thread: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    By John Donovan: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...19/reds.trade/

    Now that we've had almost a week to shake off the shock, to gain a little perspective, to mull over the most jaw-dropping July trade in a long time, I decided to give Wayne Krivsky a call. Just to see how things are going in Cincinnati these days.

    You know, just to see if he can show his face around town yet.

    "They're burying me," the Reds' new general manager said on Tuesday with what, I swear, sounded a little bit like a chuckle. "I expected some of that. But it's probably gone beyond what I expected."

    Oh, it's beyond that, all right, and then some. Krivsky has been ripped from foul line to foul line since he pulled off the trade last Thursday that sent two of his regulars -- starting shortstop Felipe Lopez and starting right fielder Austin Kearns -- to the Nationals for two relievers (26-year-old righty Gary Majewski and 23-year-old lefty Bill Bray) and an aging shortstop with no pop in his bat (36-year-old Royce Clayton). Talk radio has been all over Krivsky. The newspapers. The Internet. Even Krivsky's friends are turning on him.

    "I've gotten hammered," Krivsky said. "Steve Phillips [the former Mets GM, now an analyst for ESPN] is a good friend of mine, and he smoked me. He smoked me!

    "There's a lot of passion. There's a lot of head-scratching."

    It's no wonder that everyone is a little perplexed. Krivsky swapped two young, relatively cheap, fairly productive every-day players for two young, pretty much unknown bullpen grunts -- neither of whom is a closer. Two regulars for two players who, when things are going right, may get into only a couple of games a week.

    Of course, things almost never go right in baseball, and in Cincinnati they've gone wrong for way too long. So Krivsky -- it's really this simple -- dealt from his strengths to shore up a glaring area of need in an attempt to keep the Reds in the race for a playoff spot.

    That doesn't necessarily make the trade a good one for the Reds. At best, it's a bold move by a rookie GM that might -- somehow -- work out. At worst, Washington GM Jim Bowden fleeced Krivsky.

    Still, Krivsky is at peace with the deal. He thinks the Reds are better off for having done it. No matter what anybody says.

    "We're in a good position. We need to take advantage of it," Krivsky said. "I wouldn't be doing my job, I don't think, if we didn't put our best foot forward."

    The Reds lead the National League wild-card race, but they are -- and Krivsky knows this better than anyone -- lucky to be there. Their winning record (49-45) belies the fact that they have been outscored by 13 runs. From June 9 to the All-Star break they were 9-20, which took them from 12 games above .500 to one over. Their biggest letdown was the bullpen, which has blown 14 saves. Only three other NL teams have blown more.

    The Cincinnati pen had a particularly bad stretch just before the break, losing two late leads in Milwaukee and dropping a game in Atlanta after scoring five runs in the ninth to tie it up. By the time the Reds stumbled in Atlanta, Krivsky already had made one move, trading for former Mariners closer Eddie Guardado . Before they began the second half, Krivsky pulled off the stunner: Majewski, Bray, Clayton and a couple of throw-ins from the Nationals for Lopez, the slugger Kearns and minor league reliever Ryan Wagner.

    No matter how the trade is viewed, no player in it is without blemishes. If they're not young and largely untested (Bray, Wagner, the throw-ins) or too old (Clayton), they strike out too much and have health problems (Kearns), struggle defensively (Lopez) or are just barely good enough, in some people's minds, to make a major league pitching staff (Majewski).

    It's hard to argue that the Reds haven't improved their bullpen with the addition of Guardado, Bray and Majewski. The question is whether Krivsky hurt the team by subtracting Lopez and Kearns from the mix.

    Of course, that's not a question in the minds of those filleting Krivsky.

    Some charge that Krivsky -- considering the youth of Kearns and Lopez and the fact that the Reds had them locked up through the 2008 season -- is mortgaging the team's future. ("Well, we're not," he says.) Others criticize the idea of trading valuable every-day players for a couple of so-called "middle" relievers. ("They're not middle relievers," he says.) Others simply declare that he was taken by Bowden, the Reds' former GM. ("People are already evaluating the trade after four games," he says. "It's ludicrous.")

    The way Krivsky sees it, if Majewski and Bray work out, the Reds have actually strengthened themselves for the future. They'll have two setup men, an increasingly valuable commodity in the game, for years to come. And the club had to find a spot for Chris Denorfia -- who was hitting .347 in Triple A Louisville -- sooner or later. He'll get a lot of playing time in right, splitting time with Ryan Freel.

    Maybe most importantly, what critics of the trade seem to gloss over is this: The Reds had no chance at the postseason with their old bullpen. Even in the weak-kneed NL, the Reds were on a skid to nowhere.


    "I really feel like if we wouldn't have made this move, we'd have very little chance to stay in the race," manager Jerry Narron told reporters. "It might not work out, but this gives us our best chance."

    The Reds won four in a row after the break, which has quieted the Queen City critics a little. But with a long stretch left to be played and seven teams within four games of the Reds in the scramble for the wild card, the rumblings are still there.

    If the Reds slip, the ripping will resume like never before.

    "I think it's great that the fans here care so much," Krivsky insists. "It's fun to hear everyone talking about the Reds instead of football season starting. It's baseball season."

    And open season on Krivsky, too.

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  3. #2
    Member smith288's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    Interesting insight to me would have been something like this:

    "Lopez glove killed us and we had some questions about Kearns work ethic..."

    But i think the honesty wouldnt have went over very well.

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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    Quote Originally Posted by smith288
    Interesting insight to me would have been something like this:

    "Lopez glove killed us and we had some questions about Kearns work ethic..."

    But i think the honesty wouldnt have went over very well.
    Sometimes the truth may hurt
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    Interesting insight to me would have been something like this:

    "Lopez glove killed us and we had some questions about Kearns work ethic..."
    Interesting yes. Professional, no.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    Nice to see if Wayne can acquire a starting pitcher before the July deadline.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    "There's a very good chance Majewski and Bray might be non-tendered and be on the scrap heap three years from now," one rival GM says. "But Austin Kearns will play in an All-Star game in the next five years."
    One good thing that this trade may show is that Krivsky is wayyyyy smarter than most of his peers and fellow GM's if it all works out. And basing my opinion on some of what I saw and knew, and what TC filled us in on I think it will comeout closer than most expect and possibly sway Wayne's way by the end of it all. I am behind him because although most casual observers feel we got a bad deal, most of those people never heard of any of these guys except Clayton. Well Majewski some may remember was on team USA in the WBC, granted that doesn't make him a great reliever but who on this team made it? Bray I had heard of about a month before the deal and saying that Bray was a real comer. Brendan Harris I had heard of some time ago as a highly touted prospect and apparently he still has a chance to be a solid big leaguer and although I had not heard of him before Thompson sounds like a guy with a shot.

    I know people will get tired of hearing this example but it bears repeating as it goes to the heart of "The Defense of Krivsky".

    A.J. Pierzynski for 3 count 'em 3 outstanding arms, Liriano (like Thompson injured at or near the time of the deal but with tremendous upside apparently) Boof Bonser (who the jury is probably still out on but by most reports say is outstanding was the key to the deal like Bray) and Joe Nathan (a guy like Majewski who has the stuff and the makeup but apparently wasn't being coached right or used properly). Of course we gave up more than 1 above average (but hardly a franchise guy) catcher, but this is a different time and Bowden knew these guys intimately. We also received more than did the Twins, and from a guy who doesn't value or even recognize young arms Sabean/Bowden like Wayne does. So see the similarities, and give Krivsky a chance to work here, like we gave to Bowden and DOB!

    But the key that people forget about is that Krivsky had scouted these guys not Terry Ryan, so he knows talent however if Ryan did not trust Wayne those 3 might have never reached their potential or it would have been for the Giants. And like Ryan, Wayne hires good scouts because who knows good scouts like other good scouts.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 07-20-2006 at 02:28 PM.
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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    Nice to see if Wayne can acquire a starting pitcher before the July deadline.
    I often wonder why Krisky didn't go for Armas in this trade.Armas,Bray and Majewski would have probably gotten done for what we gave.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    Ryan, not Reynolds. Terry Ryan. But good point.

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    Re: Some interesting insight from Wayne about the trade

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715
    I often wonder why Krisky didn't go for Armas in this trade.Armas,Bray and Majewski would have probably gotten done for what we gave.
    I had heard that Armas is on a somewhat indefinite stint on the DL right now.


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