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Thread: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

  1. #1
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    I know this may be suited for the Down on the Farm forum, but with the recent acquisition, discussion and gnashing of teeth regarding middle relievers, why isn't a guy like Carlos Alvarado considered to help this bullpen?

    He's no spring chicken. I believe he's 28 or 29, but look at the numbers he's put up in relief between high A-Sarasota and AA-Chatanooga:

    33 G
    56 IP
    32 H
    23 BB
    71 K
    .98 WHIP
    .160 BAA

    Am I missing something here? Isn't there help in our system that may be just as good as bringing in average middle relief at such a cost (Kearns and Lopez)?

    And if something's wrong with him such as weight, since we have a preference for skinny relievers, what's wrong with John Coutlangus?

    His numbers, all in AA-Chattanooga:

    37 G
    46 IP
    26 H
    19 BB
    41 K
    .98 WHIP
    .168 BAA

    Or David Shafer?


    His numbers, all in AA-Chattanooga:

    32 G
    33 IP
    22 H
    12 BB
    39 K
    1.03 WHIP
    .186 BAA
    23 SAVES



    Is there something wrong with these guys? Not to beat that really dead horse, but can anyone tell me why these guys couldn't put up similar numbers, in a similar role as a Majewski?
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 07-23-2006 at 08:41 AM.

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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer


  4. #3
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    I think princeton is showcasing the availability of Scott Service.

    JMO.

    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    I think princeton is showcasing the availability of Scott Service.

    JMO.


    Nah, he's not skinny enough.

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Is Josh Hancock really that more beefy than David Weathers?

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    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen?
    Last edited by deltachi8; 07-23-2006 at 11:43 AM.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Shafer, a 24 yo, is having great success but he's not on the 40 man roster, probably why he isn't getting a callup. I think the organization is pretty high on him - I'd be surprised if he isn't on the roster next spring (40 man). 88-92 fb and slider in mid 80s, 170 lbs, projects as middle reliever. Biggest asset is superb command of all his pitches, makes bats miss with his slider which is his out pitch. Command and sharp slider make him dominant at AA but whether that will translate to success at the ML level is a big question.

    Coutlangus is, I believe, on the 40 man and should be a September callup. A converted outfielder claimed by K from SF, he is still learning how to pitch and is probably the reason he isn't up yet. He is a lefty, 26 soon, throws hard
    (I found this about Coutlangus in a journal by Giants farmhand Gary Brosius: Sometimes this means a position change, with this usually being a position player switching to pitching. A case in point is Jon Coutlangus. Drafted as an outfielder, Coutlangus struggled with the bat in 2004 but showed a strong arm from center field. This arm also happened to be the left arm, and so he was asked to switch to pitching. Realizing he had a much better shot of moving up as a pitcher, Coutlangus agreed. He was sent last year to San Jose as a lefthanded reliever, and though he struggled the first half of the season, he made adjustments and by the second half was one of our most reliable relievers. There were times he was untouchable, and this offseason he earned a spot on the Giants' 40-man roster. One year his career seemed to be headed nowhere but now he is knocking on the door of the big leagues.

    Coutlangus was slated to begin the year with Wald and I in Norwich but --- as often happens --- a move at the big-league level had a trickle-down impact. When Jamey Wright won the Giants' fifth starting job as a non-roster invitee, someone else had to be taken off the 40-man roster. This, unfortunately, was Coutlangus, who was claimed on waivers the next day by the Cincinnati Reds. A sad day for many in our organization as Coutlangus, aside from possessing a devastating cut fastball, also has a devastating sense of humor. He will be sorely missed.

    This domino effect is an often overlooked aspect of transactions, as any trade or deal made at the major league level usually has consequences at the minor-league level. Usually, you hear only about the major league players affected. Anyone else affected is just a name, and you can forget that there is a human attached to this name. When you're inside the game, though, this name has meaning, as sometimes it's a dear friend who will be missed.

    This is the nature of this transient game of constant change, one day you're down facing incredible odds, the next you're up, and sometimes this means you change teams. It's a roller-coaster ride that I'm glad to be riding, and I'm sure Coutlangus is glad to be riding it as well, even if it's with another team. Hopefully others in our organization can learn from Coutlangus and Wald, and realize that when things are at their worst, there's only one way out of the valley, and that's through hard work. After all, the low times sure make you appreciate the high times, and if they don't break you, they can only make you stronger.

    Garrett Broshuis is a pitcher for the Giants' Class AA team in Norwich, Conn. E-mail him at gbroshuis@sportingnews.com.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...ic.php?t=80031

    OBM posted that once before in an earlier thread in RZ but thought worth reposting inre to Coutlangus.
    Coutlangus is probably the Reds best bet in the minors fora future "lock" reliever and another of Krivsky's cheap acquisitions. Ordinarily his age at AA would be a bit high but his conversion from outfielder is the primary reason. Had he begun as a pitcher he'd probably be in the big leagues - with the Giants.

    Alvarado is probably not a serious prospect being really old for his level and nothing special in his repertoire. He's just pitching well because of experience at his level. Rarely hits 90 with his fastball, relies on groundballs, gives up hits at almost 1 per inning at a level where he should be much more dominant.

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake
    Alvarado is probably not a serious prospect being really old for his level and nothing special in his repertoire. He's just pitching well because of experience at his level. Rarely hits 90 with his fastball, relies on groundballs, gives up hits at almost 1 per inning at a level where he should be much more dominant.
    I fat-fingered Alvarado's HIT total above.

    He actually has only given up 32 H in 55 IP.

    Regardless of his age, his numbers at AA warrant a look, IMO.

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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Brad Salmon has always intrigued me. Maybe he'll ride the Cincy/Louisville shuttle in 2007

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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg
    Am I missing something here? Isn't there help in our system that may be just as good as bringing in average middle relief at such a cost (Kearns and Lopez)?

    Is there something wrong with these guys? Not to beat that really dead horse, but can anyone tell me why these guys couldn't put up similar numbers, in a similar role as a Majewski?
    What you are missing is that Majewski and Bray and quite a bit better than "average middle relief".

    Majewski had a sub 3 ERA last year as a primary set up guy. Yes, those guys in the minors aren't likely to do that.

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig
    What you are missing is that Majewski and Bray and quite a bit better than "average middle relief".

    Majewski had a sub 3 ERA last year as a primary set up guy. Yes, those guys in the minors aren't likely to do that.
    Maybe Bray, because he's a lefty, a former first rounder, and 23.

    Majewski? I'd say he's average. His decent ERA wasn't telling the whole picture. Most reliever's ERA's are a bit misleading. I'd rather judge him based on K/9, BB/9, WHIP, etc.

    The numbers he's put in those categories last year and this year are average to say the least.

  13. #12
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Alvarado, Coutlangus, & Shafer

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen?
    Me?

    Go Gators!


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