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Thread: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

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  1. #1
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    The Reds just won, which I'm happy about, but once again I question a couple of Narron's moves. I've tried not to get too upset about his moves and the way he's handled EE, but the poor moves just keep coming. It's really mindboggling to knowledgable Reds fans. Here's a couple more tonight:

    #1: Pinch hitting Aurilia for Hatteberg after Hatte was 3 for 4. It just doesn't make sense to take a regular out who is hot for a cold guy on the bench. Pinch hitting is very hard and he knew if RA came in, they would sub for a righty anyways. Save RA for later.

    #2: Taking out Dunn AGAIN for defense in a very close game. I could understand taking out Lopez or EE for defense in the 9th, but there's a very small chance Dunn's defense is going to cost the Reds a game late in the game. I think there's a much, much greater chance we'll need his bat again later in the game over the chance of him misplaying a flyball.

    Narron has this team winning and finally put a good lineup out there tonight, but once again he's making some serious questionable moves when this team cannot afford it, IMO. I believe these moves will start costing us some very important games that we cannot afford to lose.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook
    #1: Pinch hitting Aurilia for Hatteberg after Hatte was 3 for 4. It just doesn't make sense to take a regular out who is hot for a cold guy on the bench. Pinch hitting is very hard and he knew if RA came in, they would sub for a righty anyways. Save RA for later.

    #2: Taking out Dunn AGAIN for defense in a very close game. I could understand taking out Lopez or EE for defense in the 9th, but there's a very small chance Dunn's defense is going to cost the Reds a game late in the game. I think there's a much, much greater chance we'll need his bat again later in the game over the chance of him misplaying a flyball.
    I don't agree at all. Those are basic textbook calls. Hatteberg is 0 for 17 lifetime against Shouse with 5 strikeouts. It makes total sense to pinch-hit for him and set up a righty against a lefty matchup.

    Dunn is a mediocre defender, any manager would put in a strong defensive replacement for him in the 9th inning with a one run lead. These aren't questionable, they're basic Baseball 101 managerial moves.

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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Aurilia and Hatteberg are both as hot as anyone in baseball in the month of July, hitting .373 (14-game hitting streak) and .422, respectively.

    Big difference is - Aurilia is hitting .340 vs. lefties, whereas Hatteberg is only hitting .250 this year vs. southpaws.


    That move was baseball managing 101 - a no-brainer. Taking Dunn out, on the other hand - I can see your frustration to some extent.

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    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo
    I don't agree at all. Those are basic textbook calls. Hatteberg is 0 for 17 lifetime against Shouse with 5 strikeouts. It makes total sense to pinch-hit for him and set up a righty against a lefty matchup.

    Dunn is a mediocre defender, any manager would put in a strong defensive replacement for him in the 9th inning with a one run lead. These aren't questionable, they're basic Baseball 101 managerial moves.
    Even though I understand pinch hitting RA, I still don't agree with it. I don't agree with taking hot hitters out of a game. And once RA was put in you knew the Brewers would bring in a righty and he's only hitting .248 against them.

    I agree that Dunn is a mediocre defender, but I think his bat needs to be in there in case extra innings occurs. Yes, our bullpen is improved, but scoring one run is not that hard to push the game to extras. I just think the odds of his defense costing us the game in the 9th is pretty slim. Much better chance of extra innings and needing his bat later on.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook
    Even though I understand pinch hitting RA, I still don't agree with it. I don't agree with taking hot hitters out of a game. And once RA was put in you knew the Brewers would bring in a righty and he's only hitting .248 against them.

    I agree that Dunn is a mediocre defender, but I think his bat needs to be in there in case extra innings occurs. Yes, our bullpen is improved, but scoring one run is not that hard to push the game to extras. I just think the odds of his defense costing us the game in the 9th is pretty slim. Much better chance of extra innings and needing his bat later on.
    There's just no way any manager would have kept Hatteberg in to face Shouse with those kind of lifetime numbers. When you are 0 for 17 lifetime with 5 strikeouts I don't care what you've done during the game. In those types of situations in late innings, it's all about matchups.

    As far as Dunn, the idea is not to go into extra innings. That's why you put your best defensive team on the field in the 9th inning with a one run lead.

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    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook
    Even though I understand pinch hitting RA, I still don't agree with it. I don't agree with taking hot hitters out of a game. And once RA was put in you knew the Brewers would bring in a righty and he's only hitting .248 against them.

    I agree that Dunn is a mediocre defender, but I think his bat needs to be in there in case extra innings occurs. Yes, our bullpen is improved, but scoring one run is not that hard to push the game to extras. I just think the odds of his defense costing us the game in the 9th is pretty slim. Much better chance of extra innings and needing his bat later on.
    I totally agree with both of these statements.... except for Dunn being a mediocre defender. He may not be a gold glover but IMHO, he's better than mediocre.

    It's a 1-run game; his bat might be needed... as it was in an earlier game this season when he was removed in the 7th inning of a game that ended up going extras.

    Regarding RA for SH? I really don't care what SH's record was against the pitcher... he was hot tonight, and has been for awhile. Tonight could have been the night for him to break that record against said pitcher. I'd have taken my chances with 3-4 SH over a cold RA of the bench. It couldn't have turned out much worse than it did... and it had all the signs of turning out better. The right-lefty thing is soooo overrated.

    One more thing I'd have done... when Mays reached the 3-run mark, someone would have been throwing in the pen. When he reached the 4-run mark (no quality start), he'd have been gone.

    All that said, I'm ecstatic that the Reds won, but it soooo could have gone the other way so quickly. I really do question some of JN's moves late in games... I realize he's the manager, but geeeeez!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner
    When Weathers was sucking it up durring his appearance my Father and I were gripeing that Narron was leaving him in and what the heck was he thinking. Then we finally noticed that Weathers spot was up first the next inning and he didn't want to bring another guy in, to turn around and pitch hit for him right away. Suprise, suprise sometimes the manager does pay attention to things that us fans don't think about or realize.
    I'm sure that's why he didn't pull him, but he could easily have given up even more runs than what he did. Regardless of who's up first next inning, I'd have pulled him as insurance against that happening. I'd have pulled him after the first run he relinquished.
    Last edited by TeamBoone; 07-23-2006 at 12:56 AM.
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    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    Regarding RA for SH? I really don't care what SH's record was against the pitcher... he was hot tonight, and has been for awhile. Tonight could have been the night for him to break that record against said pitcher. I'd have taken my chances with 3-4 SH over a cold RA of the bench. It couldn't have turned out much worse than it did... and it had all the signs of turning out better. The right-lefty thing is soooo overrated.
    I just disagree. I might go along with it if Hatteberg had at least some past success against this guy, but as little as he strikes out, he's had 5 of them in 17 at-bats against Shouse. A lifetime 0 for 17 against a certain pitcher is pretty glaring.

    I don't think the righty-left things is overrated at all. It is easier to see the ball coming off an arm that is on the opposite side of the plate that a hitter stands. I think it is even more prevelant with a left-handed pitcher against a batter who hits from the left side. In this case though, I think it was more Hatteberg's past stats against Shouse.

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    The Buckeye Bomber
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    Regarding RA for SH? I really don't care what SH's record was against the pitcher... he was hot tonight, and has been for awhile.
    I think it's one of those double-edged decisions. Had Narron left Hatteberg in, if he didn't get a hit, someone would have retrieved the 0-17 lifetime stat and questioned the decision in that respect. I was surprised when he made the initial move, but knowing his career marks against the pitcher, it doesn't bother me. Then again, we won, so why would it?

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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Jimbo's right. Geez a guy is 0 from 17 and Dunn's defense has been questionable in the late innings for some time.

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Don't mind Aurilia for Hatteberg. Probably would have played the 7th differently (not bunting with Phillips and/or PH for Clayton).

    Narron wasn't horrid tonight. At least get got Mays out before the lead was gone.
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    To me it was a no brainer move! I questioned it at first especially Hatteberg, but after knowing the facts it sounded like a good move. Hey we won!!!!

  12. #12
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    I've been saying this for a while now, but the reason Hate is putting up such good numbers this season is the platoon with RA. He is protected and gets most of his ABs vs. righties (4 times as many ABs vs. righty pitchers). He's hitting close to .330 vs. right handed pitchers and only .250ish vs. lefties. PHing Rich there was not a bad move, esp. considering how well Rich has done in Ph situations recently.

    (Now PHing Hatte for EE against submarine boy, thats a different story, as EE is hitting .299 against Righties, and it came back to bite Jerry when Hatte had to go against a lefty pitcher his second time up)

    As for the Dunn replacement, I have no problem with that. Dunn's spot was the 5th or 6th to come up, so if we do get in a hole, we've already produced a lot of offense before we get to Adam's spot unless we go extra.
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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    His heart told him to do it.
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Narron is the king of matchups. I've learned that and that's one of the reasons he is so successful. I let him be when I think a call is questionable because he knows more than I do.
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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Two more questionable moves by Jerry Narron

    Two things that are not questionable:

    1) We won.

    2) We have won more often than we've lost with Narron at the helm.


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