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Thread: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

  1. #1
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    seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Reds' offense, what's left of it, has lately done a pretty good job of working deep into the opposing team's bullpen

    last nine games, we've drawn 145 pitches/game from the bad guys. In the previous nine games (when Kearns/Lopez were still around), that number was 138 pitches/game when adjusted for innings played.

    Red Sox are probably a decent benchmark, although an AL team will probably work a few more pitches out of the opposition than will a team lacking a DH. Over the same time period, Red Sox have drawn an average of 154 pitches per game, adjusted for innings. So lately the Reds match up well to that rate, and this may be a number worth watching.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Interesting numbers. Thanks Princeton.

    Hacking away at the first pitch or generally being "impatient" at the plate has been a big pet peave of mine. My Father is sick of me griping about it. It does seem to be a good indicator of whether people are "dialed in" or not. At last antecdotally, it seem like when they start pressing the offsense dries up and they get uber-streaky. Once they all calm down and work the counts everything falls into place.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    only 125 pitches from the Brewers on Sunday: the princeton jinx strikes again

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Working pitchers has been the team's strength for a while now (since the advent of Chris Chambliss). In general you'd expect an average team to see 135 pitches a game (15 per inning) so once you get north of 150 pitches you've effectively caused the opposition to do an extra inning's worth of work.

    Dunn (4.13 pitches per plate appearance) and Ryan Freel (4.12) are the team leaders in working pitchers. Austin Kearns (4.11) and Felipe Lopez (4.07) were third and fourth before the trade. Edwin Encarnacion (4.00) and Scott Hatteberg (3.93) are also very good in working pitchers. Presuming Freel and Denorfia (4.21 so far) get the bulk of the RF playing time, that shouldn't affect the offense. Yet the Castro/Clayton combination will probably see roughly half a pitch less per PA than Lopez did. Add in the extra outs (which means less total PAs for the team) and that will be a drag on the team total.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    When comparing 2Bman...If Chambliss can just get Phillips (3.61 P/PA) up around the Marcus Giles range (4.07).
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Another reason why strikeouts aren't all that bad.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    When comparing 2Bman...If Chambliss can just get Phillips (3.61 P/PA) up around the Marcus Giles range (4.07).
    That's doable should every MLB pitcher suddenly forget how to throw a slider.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Another reason why strikeouts aren't all that bad.
    Strikeouts are better than hits.

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton
    Strikeouts are better than hits.
    And journeyman relievers are better than everyday shortstops and right fielders!
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    And journeyman relievers are better than everyday shortstops and right fielders!
    exactly, and for the very same reason-- you don't want pitchers to strike out batters. Better that they give up hits.

    just use the new math, and you'll learn that we are rich in pitching now
    Last edited by princeton; 07-24-2006 at 11:38 AM.

  12. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    And journeyman relievers are better than everyday shortstops and right fielders!
    I like how the Relievers are "Journeymen" and Lopez is an "everyday SS"

    When and if Reds still have the relievers in 2 years and Lopez ain't playing short will the above still apply?

    BTW are we missing Kearns yet?

  13. #12
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    I like how the Relievers are "Journeymen" and Lopez is an "everyday SS"

    When and if Reds still have the relievers in 2 years and Lopez ain't playing short will the above still apply?

    BTW are we missing Kearns yet?
    Is Majewski helping us yet?

    If someone gets smart and moves Lopez to 2B, how does his .780 OPS look then?

    Granted, Bray has a decent pedigree and should be a very good reliever in the next few years. That doesn't mean he and Majourneymanski were worth Kearns and Lopez, no matter how many ways people try to spin it.

    Sorry for hijacking the thread, BTW. It's supposed to be about pitch counts. I'm actually pretty surprised that the Reds have worked the count so well after losing Lopez and Kearns, but after watching Juan Castro hack at an eye-high 1-1 fastball yesterday, I don't think it will last.
    Last edited by Johnny Footstool; 07-24-2006 at 12:31 PM.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Granted, Bray has a decent pedigree and should be a very good reliever in the next few years.
    He's pitched pretty well, more IP then GM .

    If someone gets smart and moves Lopez to 2B, how does his .780 OPS look then?
    Well he's a SS in DC, he's flanked by two guys who aren't moving on soon, so someone will have to do that elsewhere I suppose.

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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    If someone gets smart and moves Lopez to 2B...

    I led the posting on this years ago, but IMO it's too late to help much in the next year-plus, which is the Reds' need, because his footwork is bad enough at the position that he was holding and would be worse at second. And if he's able to adjust after that year plus, then he's too pricey to justify

    Lopez's best position for Reds was probably utility IF/OF, which a team with a 12 man staff always needs. Even with Freel around, there remains a need there. But he'd be a pricey UT player even three months from now.

  16. #15
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: seeing more pitches during these 9 games

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton
    Strikeouts are better than hits.
    Strikeouts are better than DPs.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn


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