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Thread: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

  1. #16
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    It's pretty obvious. Who else are you going to hit in the 3 hole?

    Narron is doing what every manager would do, just gotta hope Griffey breaks out.
    Not sure EVERY manager would leave him there. Minimally I'd stick Encarnacion in the 3 hole and move Griffey down to 4. Ross, when healthy, would get time at 5, Hat 6th, BP 7th and then whatever offensive monster is playing SS 8th. Jr ideally should be moved even further down, but this offense doesn't really have a lot of options.
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  3. #17
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    Now he's back down to .255.

    Here is to hoping that wasn't just one hot week.
    after today he is .244 with .296OBP and the hot week is getting further and further in the distance. He needs to be dropped in the order and if they bat him behind guys who get on base a lot (Freel, Hatty, Dunn and EE) he would get even more RBI opps without his OBP hurting as much.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  4. #18
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    I'm gonna ride Griffey and hope he turns it around in front of Dunn.

    Dunn should be hitting behind Griffey.

    Griffey is swinging early in the count because he doesn't trust his bat speed right now. He's also pressing because he hasn't seen many good pitches to hit because of Rich Aurilia behind him. Every at bat he's probably thinking that first pitch is all he is gonna get good to hit.
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  5. #19
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I'm gonna ride Griffey and hope he turns it around in front of Dunn.

    Dunn should be hitting behind Griffey.
    Jr's problem is his approach not who is hitting behind him. During his hot week at the beginning of June and then the beginning of July RA batted behind Jr a lot more than Dunn did. The idea is to give the pitcher a chance to make a mistake, not hack at the first strike you see.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  6. #20
    Member LINEDRIVER's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Griff Sr has recently advised Jr as to what he seems to be doing wrong so hopefully Jr will get it going very soon.

    I seem to remember a batting order problem with Joe Morgan in the late 70's. Did some checking and found Morgan hit just .254 as a third-place hitter in 87 games in 1978 for the Reds. The almost 35-year-old Morgan was moved to the #2 hole in the lineup where he really sucked with a .182 BA over August AND September. It drove me nuts!! But managers very rarely demote the onetime superstars to an embarrassing spot in the batting order.

  7. #21
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Jr's problem is his approach not who is hitting behind him. During his hot week at the beginning of June and then the beginning of July RA batted behind Jr a lot more than Dunn did. The idea is to give the pitcher a chance to make a mistake, not hack at the first strike you see.
    So his approach might not be based on who is hitting behind him? BS.

    You think we on Redszone are the only people that realize Rich shouldn't be in the cleanup spot? Hell no. Griffey get's it, and I bet it helped foul up his approach at the plate.

    And I'm by no means saying it's the only reason Griffey might be struggling. But I think it's a valid arguement that his slot in front of Rich is changing his mentality at the plate.
    Last edited by Cedric; 07-23-2006 at 11:38 PM.
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  8. #22
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    So his approach might not be based on who is hitting behind him? BS.
    Let's ignore the data since one doesn't like it and go with the anecdotal. That is right up Jerry's alley.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #23
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Griffey is swinging early in the count because he doesn't trust his bat speed right now.
    Actually he's been feasting on the first pitch for his whole career, something like 13% of his PA's involve a first pitch swings with a result, problem is he was raking for his career at around 1.000 OPS, and now he's clocking in at .599.

  10. #24
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Here' a crazy idea, ego's and managers bias aside:

    RF Freel
    CF Deno
    1b Dunn
    3b EE
    LF JR
    2b Phillips
    C Ross
    SS dejour

    Package Aurilia, Hatteberg and LaRue for pitching help. Your now razor thin but better defensively in the OF and at least the same on the IF.

    If Deno can't hit you minimise the liability by making him the sac bunt champion of the world and play a good defensive CF.

    If Jr turns it around you adjust the batting order but that would be my team for the last 60 games or so.

  11. #25
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    If it was all about a lack of protection for Jr he would be walking and not hacking.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #26
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    If it was all about a lack of protection for Jr he would be walking and not hacking.
    Griffey has always been a free swinger. He's just going a little overboard right now because he's pressing.

    If you think Griffey is done that's fine, we'll just have to wait and see.

    My contention is the Reds can't win without Ken Griffey Jr in this lineup producing. So the best way to do that is put him in front of Dunn and let him sink or swim.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  13. #27
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    If you think Griffey is done that's fine, we'll just have to wait and see.
    I have never said that Jr is done, however, at his age is a concern. The issue is addressing the some of the worst #3 hole numbers in baseball. For whatever reason his BB rate is down 50% and his numbers are nosediving. Keeping him in the 3 hole and ignoring the problem just exacerbates the offensive problems this team is having. The smart play would be to move him down to where his lack of OBP hurts a lot less and where his RBI opps will likely increase.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #28
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    This team has 4 really good OBPs batters (Freel, Hatty, Dunn and EE). Those guys really ought to be at the top of the order.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  15. #29
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    This team has 4 really good OBPs batters (Freel, Hatty, Dunn and EE). Those guys really ought to be at the top of the order.
    Narron doesn't live in this perfect statistical world we all want him to, he actually has to deal with real players and real ego's. He might realize how important Ken Griffey Jr is to this team and maybe he expects Griffey to break out soon.

    I've criticized Jerry a lot and will continue to about things, but not this.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  16. #30
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    He might realize how important Ken Griffey Jr is to this team and maybe he expects Griffey to break out soon.
    The point is, and what you're missing, is Jr would likely be even more valuable in the #5 hole because he would get even more RBI opportunities.

    Pencilling in a name in a spot simple because of egos would be stupidity of the highest order and would tell me that the manager would rather keep people happy than win.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand


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