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Thread: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

  1. #31
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    Narron doesn't live in this perfect statistical world
    I'd say he lives in a completely anecdotal world.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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  3. #32
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    The point is, and what you're missing, is Jr would likely be even more valuable in the #5 hole because he would get even more RBI opportunities.

    Pencilling in a name in a spot simple because of egos would be stupidity of the highest order and would tell me that the manager would rather keep people happy than win.
    I didn't fall off the turnip truck coming home from the hospital, I understand the reasonings for putting Griffey in the #5 hole. I just believe that Narron has more things to juggle than you can imagine. And I believe Griffey still has a better chance to break out of this slump right where he is. Hitting in front of Edwin or Dunn though.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  4. #33
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I didn't fall off the turnip truck coming home from the hospital, I understand the reasonings for putting Griffey in the #5 hole.
    then you should realize that the 5 hole is the spot because in that spot whether his BB rate comes back up or not really doesn't matter, in the #3 hole it certainly does. Jr's BA will likely rise but there have to be serious doubts about the walk rate. It is a no brainer to put him the spot to take adavantage of his numbers regardless of whether his BB rate rebounds this season.

    This isn't about maximizing Jrs numbers, it is about putting this team in the best possible position to succeed given the current situation. Those two may coincide but they may not.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #34
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    then you should realize that the 5 hole is the spot because in that spot whether his BB rate comes back up or not really doesn't matter, in the #3 hole it certainly does. Jr's BA will likely rise but there have to be serious doubts about the walk rate. It is a no brainer to put him the spot to take adavantage of his numbers regardless of whether his BB rate rebounds this season.
    Again, no brainer in terms of what? A video game?

    Jerry Narron has ego's and a clubhouse to deal with.

    I don't think it's a slam dunk move anyway, but it's not that simple and you know this.

    This is a very important player to this team and a VERY sensitive person. Jerry Narron is a players manager and maybe he's making a small concession to keep the clubhouse in good spirits.

    It's a long season.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  6. #35
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    I would not slide Dunn behind JR to give him protection, if Dunn does well in front of JR leave it as is.

    Oh and JR will bat 3rd till 2009
    Go Gators!

  7. #36
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    Again, no brainer in terms of what? A video game?

    Jerry Narron has ego's and a clubhouse to deal with.

    I don't think it's a slam dunk move anyway, but it's not that simple and you know this.
    So then Narron loses either way. He gives in to egos and doesn't put his team in the best situation to win or he doesn't play favorites and alienates certain players. I would say the smart play is go all out to win and if you do there will be more job security there than losing.

    I have no doubt that aging superstars who have lost some skills but not their egos are hard to deal with but that comes with the territory.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  8. #37
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    So then Narron loses either way. He gives in to egos and doesn't put his team in the best situation to win or he doesn't play favorites and alienates certain players. I would say the smart play is go all out to win and if you do there will be more job security there than losing.

    I have no doubt that aging superstars who have lost some skills but not their egos are hard to deal with but that comes with the territory.
    He only loses if Griffey doesn't turn it around. Because at this point we are still playing relatively well.

    We are just gonna have to wait and see if Jerry is right.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  9. #38
    Member LINEDRIVER's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by LINEDRIVER
    Griff Sr has recently advised Jr as to what he seems to be doing wrong so hopefully Jr will get it going very soon.

    I seem to remember a batting order problem with Joe Morgan in the late 70's. Did some checking and found Morgan hit just .254 as a third-place hitter in 87 games in 1978 for the Reds. The almost 35-year-old Morgan was moved to the #2 hole in the lineup where he really sucked with a .182 BA over August AND September. It drove me nuts!! But managers very rarely demote the onetime superstars to an embarrassing spot in the batting order.
    Willie Mays, who was making a fool of himself at the age of 42 with the 1973 Mets, started about 60-70 games as the centerfielder. He batted .211 that year and hit first or third in the line-up.

  10. #39
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    He only loses if Griffey doesn't turn it around. Because at this point we are still playing relatively well.
    that -13 run differential is a huge red flag that this team is likely more smoke and mirrors than legit playoff contender. The Reds margin for error from this point forward is extremely small.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  11. #40
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Funny you bring up Mays and 73.

    I've read countless things on that 73 Mets team and almost every player speaks on how incredibly important Mays was to that team.

    Making a fool of himself? Baseball is a lot more than just a friggin batting average or ops.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  12. #41
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    We are just gonna have to wait and see if Jerry is right.
    I'd still say the smart play is to put a guy in a position where the OBP rebound really doesn't matter, that way you get the potential upside without all the downside risk. But then again Narron probably thinks risk mitigation is a new version of an old board game.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  13. #42
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    Funny you bring up Mays and 73.

    I've read countless things on that 73 Mets team and almost every player speaks on how incredibly important Mays was to that team.

    Making a fool of himself? Baseball is a lot more than just a friggin batting average or ops.
    that 73 Mets team was all about great starting pitching(Seaver, Koosman, Matlack, etc)
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #43
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    On the field.

    You might not think clubhouse type things matter, I sure as hell do. And apparently the whole Mets team that year did.

    If you don't believe me I can link many articles where pitchers and hitters alike spoke on the importance of Willie Mays to that team.

    Clubhouse things matter, I don't care what anyone else says.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  15. #44
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    Clubhouse things matter, I don't care what anyone else says.
    I'm sure the 72-74 As who beat those happy 73 Mets would beg to differ. Those As disliked each other and all hated the manager.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #45
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Griffey be in the 3 hole?

    Would those Mets even gotten there? Talent overrides anything, but some other teams rely on other means.

    Not every case is the same. It sure can matter.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.


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