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Thread: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

  1. #1
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Career 236 130 0 3.63 1.18

    So, is Mussina a Hall of Famer, and if not yet (which I would say is the case) what does he need to get to make it. He is 37 years old and still pitching well.

    What if he ends up 282-155 for a career wining percentage of .645 with no Cy Youngs and no 20 win seasons?

    How bout same 282-155 career, but with a 20 win season and a Cy Young?

    Does he need a Cy Young? Or 300 wins? Or both?
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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    No, not yet.

    What he needs it a World Series win, a Cy Young or two, and 280+ wins.

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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    He's closer than the Reds' draft pick in 1990, Dan Wilson.

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    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Mike....who?

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    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph
    No, not yet.

    What he needs it a World Series win, a Cy Young or two, and 280+ wins.
    From where he is now, I don't think he'll make the cut. He's been very good, but I just don't think Hall of Fame when his name is mentioned. He'd have to put up anther 2-3 seasons of 15+ wins, with mid 3 ERA's and some pretty good post season numbers to make it, IMO.
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    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader
    From where he is now, I don't think he'll make the cut. He's been very good, but I just don't think Hall of Fame when his name is mentioned. He'd have to put up anther 2-3 seasons of 15+ wins, with mid 3 ERA's and some pretty good post season numbers to make it, IMO.
    OK, he's gonna do that this year, and probably for at least the next two years.

    I ask this question because he is going to end up with a sick winning percentage and close to 300 wins, so is his lack of a Cy Young fatal? Seems most are saying yes, but LaMar Hoyt won a Cy Young, so is that really a prerequisite?
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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Mussina had a 125 ERA+ coming into this season, and barring a collapse, that figure will likely get better after this season. Tack on likely more than 250 career wins, and that should cement him, IMO.

    By comparison, Jim Palmer went 268-152 with a career 125 ERA+, and I don't know anybody that doesn't believe Palmer belongs. Palmer's career only looks more impressive than Moose's because Palmer pitched in an era much more conducive to arms.

    But as we all know, looks can be deceiving.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 07-26-2006 at 11:57 AM.
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    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy
    OK, he's gonna do that this year, and probably for at least the next two years.

    I ask this question because he is going to end up with a sick winning percentage and close to 300 wins, so is his lack of a Cy Young fatal? Seems most are saying yes, but LaMar Hoyt won a Cy Young, so is that really a prerequisite?
    Well to me, the Cy Young indicates that you were at least the best pitcher in the game for one season. He can't claim that. Not having 20 W's in a season hurts him as well.

    I'm not arguing that he's a good pitcher, because he is a good pitcher, but in the years prior to this one (while with the Yankees) he's fallen short of expectations and had some pretty mediocre seasons.

    I think all of those things above will hurt him and leave him on the outside looking in.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
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    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader
    Well to me, the Cy Young indicates that you were at least the best pitcher in the game for one season. He can't claim that. Not having 20 W's in a season hurts him as well.

    I'm not arguing that he's a good pitcher, because he is a good pitcher, but in the years prior to this one (while with the Yankees) he's fallen short of expectations and had some pretty mediocre seasons.

    I think all of those things above will hurt him and leave him on the outside looking in.
    Yeah, well............................your mom wears combat boots.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    I judge HoF status by 3 things:

    1.) Career value (Eddie Murray)
    2.) Peak value (Sandy Koufax)
    3.) Intangibles (Kirby Puckett)

    If you put each of these on a 1-10 scale (1 = not notable, 4 = solid major leaguer, 7 = all-star, 10 = all time great), I'd say you need a 20 or greater to make it. For Mussina I'd rate him a 6/7/4. If he can push his career value up to 8 (280 wins) and throw in a great post season or cy young, I'd say he's there.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #11
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Wins are overrated.

    Mussina just doesn't have that HOF luster. Did anyone ever say "Wow, we have to face Mussina this series?" I'm sure that was said about Unit, Pedro, Maddux, etc. I just don't see that about Moose. Very good pitcher, but not one who scared teams.

  13. #12
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    In my opinion, if Bert Blyleven isn't in the HOF, then Mike Mussina doesn't get in unless he buys a ticket.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    He's not a clear entry as shown by the chart below from baseball-reference.com, but he's surprising with his numbers in every area but the Black Ink.

    Black Ink: Pitching - 14 (149) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
    Gray Ink: Pitching - 215 (30) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
    HOF Standards: Pitching - 46.0 (46) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
    HOF Monitor: Pitching - 102.0 (89) (Likely HOFer > 100)
    He also compares there with three HOF'ers: Juan Marichal, Catfish Hunter and Dazzy Vance

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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    In my opinion, if Bert Blyleven isn't in the HOF, then Mike Mussina doesn't get in unless he buys a ticket.
    You beat me to it.
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  16. #15
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mike Mussina a HOFer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    In my opinion, if Bert Blyleven isn't in the HOF, then Mike Mussina doesn't get in unless he buys a ticket.
    And Blyleven should be in the Hall. I agree. Moose is probably 3-4 solid seasons away from being comprable. That said, I wonder how many players have won 200+ games and had a career ERA+ of 125 or greater and are not in the hall. (Blyleven is at 117, Moose is at 125, fwiw)
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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