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Thread: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

  1. #1
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    Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Last night at this bar in hollywood with an avid Mets fan who is a close friend of mine

    for about an hour over drinks we discussed Barry Larkin..i argued he should be a first ballot HOF...

    My buddy says he doesnt get in at all and is at best a fringe HOF

    what do u guys think? objective opinions please

    I was shockd to hear ANYONE oppose B Larkin into the HOF and I thought I was being objective about it as well

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  3. #2
    Firin Away Jr's Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Dumb argument.

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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Even if I wasn't a Reds fan....this is common sense....

    Barry Larkin is one of the best Shortstops the Reds have ever had, a multiple time All-Star, and possibly one of the best the MLB has ever seen. Lately, shortstops have been converted into 3rd basemen (Cal Ripken, A-rod.)

    Barry Larkin was a shortstop until he retired. He had the range, fielding abilities, and throwing accuracy only comparable to the BEST of all shortstops.

    How could he NEVER get in? It would be lunacy not to induct him.

  5. #4
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    If Barry Larkin would have played in New York with the Yankees, Barry Larkin would have been Derek Jeter. Playing in a small market like Cincy hurts his chances a bit, but I see him making it. He has a world title, an MVP, and was one of the top two shortstops in the NL for years. I would be very disappointed if he doesn't eventually get in.

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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    I think, given his career stats, having a WS title and MVP award pretty much cinches it for him.

    Whether he makes it on the first ballot probably depends on who is on the ballot with him.

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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    He's certainly not a first ballot hall of famer.

    For: 3 GG, 7 Silver Sluggers, 1995 MVP, 30-30 threat.

    Against: Career counting stats come up lacking... 2,340 hits, 1,329 runs, 940 RBI's good not elite.

    I think the real problem will be context. Take his career numbers and his peak offensive numbers against the standard 80's early 90's shortstop, and he's a no doubt hall of famer.
    Compare them to your late 90's, 2000's SS and it's again very good but fringe HOF.

    How would you compare him to Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez(I know he's a 3b now) and Miguel Tejada. My guess is the majority of his counting stats will be left in the dust by those three.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    On the brink of disaster acredsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red
    He's certainly not a first ballot hall of famer.

    For: 3 GG, 7 Silver Sluggers, 1995 MVP, 30-30 threat.

    Against: Career counting stats come up lacking... 2,340 hits, 1,329 runs, 940 RBI's good not elite.

    I think the real problem will be context. Take his career numbers and his peak offensive numbers against the standard 80's early 90's shortstop, and he's a no doubt hall of famer.
    Compare them to your late 90's, 2000's SS and it's again very good but fringe HOF.

    How would you compare him to Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez(I know he's a 3b now) and Miguel Tejada. My guess is the majority of his counting stats will be left in the dust by those three.
    I really don't think it will be a problem, what he lacks in offensive numbers he made up for with his defense. To me he is one of the greatest all around SS in the history of the game. Not only was he a 30-30 threat, he was one of the steadiest fielders of his time. If Ozzie is in, then there is no reason for Barry not to make it, you can use the whole context thing to give an excuse for if he doesn't make it, but in reality, if he doesn't make it then the problem isn't context, its the people voting to let players into the hall of fame.
    "I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual." -- House

    "You guys are still thinking like doctors when you should be thinking like plumbers. Come on, I wanna see some butt crack." -- House

  9. #8
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Bill James rated Larkin at the #6 SS of all time. I think he won't get in first ballot (50% or so) but as soon as a relatively weak class shows up, he'll get in. The argument will pretty quickly be framed not as "look as his peers" but rather "look at the other HoF SS's".
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #9
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jr's Boy
    Dumb argument.
    Great comment on your part, though...
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  11. #10
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Here's my lengthy take on Larkin and the Hall ...

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42221

    The short answer is Barry belongs ... easily.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  12. #11
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    I should clarify, I think he deserves to go, but I think he will have trouble making it.

    However to compare his fielding to Ozzie's will not help.
    Ozzie had 13 gold gloves.
    He also had 2,460 hits and 1,257 runs.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  13. #12
    Firin Away Jr's Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Great comment on your part, though...
    Gracious.

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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    I agree he should probably get in, but injuries make it a bit cloudy for him. That IMO, is the only thing really counting against him.

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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    Sounds like a Mets fan holding July of 2000 against Barry....
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

  16. #15
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Re: Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

    He might be first ballot for this reason: a good many players from the 90's will have question marks floating over them because of the 'roid issue: Barry won't be one of them...
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill


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