Had a great convo about Barry Larkin

[KalDanielsfan]

Last night at this bar in hollywood with an avid Mets fan who is a close friend of mine

for about an hour over drinks we discussed Barry Larkin..i argued he should be a first ballot HOF...

My buddy says he doesnt get in at all and is at best a fringe HOF

what do u guys think? objective opinions please

I was shockd to hear ANYONE oppose B Larkin into the HOF and I thought I was being objective about it as well

[Jr's Boy]

Dumb argument.

[Rob Dicken]

Even if I wasn't a Reds fan....this is common sense....

Barry Larkin is one of the best Shortstops the Reds have ever had, a multiple time All-Star, and possibly one of the best the MLB has ever seen. Lately, shortstops have been converted into 3rd basemen (Cal Ripken, A-rod.)

Barry Larkin was a shortstop until he retired. He had the range, fielding abilities, and throwing accuracy only comparable to the BEST of all shortstops.

How could he NEVER get in? It would be lunacy not to induct him.

[cincrazy]

If Barry Larkin would have played in New York with the Yankees, Barry Larkin would have been Derek Jeter. Playing in a small market like Cincy hurts his chances a bit, but I see him making it. He has a world title, an MVP, and was one of the top two shortstops in the NL for years. I would be very disappointed if he doesn't eventually get in.

[terminator]

I think, given his career stats, having a WS title and MVP award pretty much cinches it for him.

Whether he makes it on the first ballot probably depends on who is on the ballot with him.

[Hoosier Red]

He's certainly not a first ballot hall of famer.

For: 3 GG, 7 Silver Sluggers, 1995 MVP, 30-30 threat.

Against: Career counting stats come up lacking... 2,340 hits, 1,329 runs, 940 RBI's good not elite.

I think the real problem will be context. Take his career numbers and his peak offensive numbers against the standard 80's early 90's shortstop, and he's a no doubt hall of famer.
Compare them to your late 90's, 2000's SS and it's again very good but fringe HOF.

How would you compare him to Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez(I know he's a 3b now) and Miguel Tejada. My guess is the majority of his counting stats will be left in the dust by those three.

[acredsfan]

He's certainly not a first ballot hall of famer.

For: 3 GG, 7 Silver Sluggers, 1995 MVP, 30-30 threat.

Against: Career counting stats come up lacking... 2,340 hits, 1,329 runs, 940 RBI's good not elite.

I think the real problem will be context. Take his career numbers and his peak offensive numbers against the standard 80's early 90's shortstop, and he's a no doubt hall of famer.
Compare them to your late 90's, 2000's SS and it's again very good but fringe HOF.

How would you compare him to Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez(I know he's a 3b now) and Miguel Tejada. My guess is the majority of his counting stats will be left in the dust by those three.

I really don't think it will be a problem, what he lacks in offensive numbers he made up for with his defense. To me he is one of the greatest all around SS in the history of the game. Not only was he a 30-30 threat, he was one of the steadiest fielders of his time. If Ozzie is in, then there is no reason for Barry not to make it, you can use the whole context thing to give an excuse for if he doesn't make it, but in reality, if he doesn't make it then the problem isn't context, its the people voting to let players into the hall of fame.

[RedsManRick]

Bill James rated Larkin at the #6 SS of all time. I think he won't get in first ballot (50% or so) but as soon as a relatively weak class shows up, he'll get in. The argument will pretty quickly be framed not as "look as his peers" but rather "look at the other HoF SS's".

[Johnny Footstool]

Dumb argument.

Great comment on your part, though...

[Cyclone792]

Here's my lengthy take on Larkin and the Hall ...

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42221

The short answer is Barry belongs ... easily.

[Hoosier Red]

I should clarify, I think he deserves to go, but I think he will have trouble making it.

However to compare his fielding to Ozzie's will not help.
Ozzie had 13 gold gloves.
He also had 2,460 hits and 1,257 runs.

[Jr's Boy]

Great comment on your part, though...

Gracious.

[redsfanfalcon]

I agree he should probably get in, but injuries make it a bit cloudy for him. That IMO, is the only thing really counting against him.

[redsfan30]

Sounds like a Mets fan holding July of 2000 against Barry....

[Wheelhouse]

He might be first ballot for this reason: a good many players from the 90's will have question marks floating over them because of the 'roid issue: Barry won't be one of them...