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Thread: Trading EdE?

  1. #16
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    My problem is, I like both EE and Richie. I also like Castro, Phillips, and Hatteberg. And I'm growing on Clayton. Huge problem finding all these guys playing time.

    I especially like Freel getting his chance. He has a hot bat right now and is making things happen.
    Who's on first?

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  3. #17
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan
    Hmmmm? Well, there are two sides of a coin...how many errors does the guy have at 3b? 15 Rich has 4 in just about half as much playing time there over the season while putting up comparable numbers at the plate.

    EE

    YEAR G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
    2006 62 212 33 62 21 1 7 42 106 23 41 0 1 .384 .500 .292

    RA
    2006 72 256 42 73 17 1 13 38 131 23 31 1 0 .343 .512 .285
    A great majority of RA's numbers have come vs LHPs. Take a look at his splits. He shouldn't be in the lineup vs righties, let alone being cemented in the 4 hole.

  4. #18
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed
    My problem is, I like both EE and Richie. I also like Castro, Phillips, and Hatteberg. And I'm growing on Clayton. Huge problem finding all these guys playing time.

    I especially like Freel getting his chance. He has a hot bat right now and is making things happen.
    Who are you, Narron? Oh wait, you said you like EE. Sorry.

  5. #19
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Lopez had a lot of time to prove he wasn't a good SS, will EE?

    A key thing to watch for is what the Reds do with the contract option they have on Rich, if they pick it up..I think it means they don't see EE as a 3rd baseman in their future plans.
    Go Gators!

  6. #20
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed

    A key thing to watch for is what the Reds do with the contract option they have on Rich, if they pick it up..I think it means they don't see EE as a 3rd baseman in their future plans.
    I like Aurilia and I believe he really helps this team, but I will be very upset if he's back on this team next year because Narrooon will play him over EE and stunt his growth. Used correctly, Aurilia would be a great asset next year, but I don't see him being used correctly unless Phillips is moved to SS and RA is at 2nd some of the time.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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  7. #21
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan
    Hmmmm? Well, there are two sides of a coin...how many errors does the guy have at 3b? 15 Rich has 4 in just about half as much playing time there over the season while putting up comparable numbers at the plate.

    EE

    YEAR G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
    2006 62 212 33 62 21 1 7 42 106 23 41 0 1 .384 .500 .292

    RA
    2006 72 256 42 73 17 1 13 38 131 23 31 1 0 .343 .512 .285
    And that is the key. Comparable overall offensive production, but better defense from RA, when one compares Fielding %, RF, and ZR.

    Edge - Aurilia.

    This management (and especially Narron) had to make a choice....

    They know that EE is young and showing that inexperience on the field from a defensive perspective, and at a very important position (3B).

    And Krivsky/Narron also realize that EE isn't going to get better not playing. But he IS out there every day working hard, taking grounders, and working with the coaches to improve his game. And he is getting the occassional start THIS YEAR. And that is what is needed IMO.

    So Narron can throw him out there, endure the mental defensive lapses/errors while they hope he grows/improves (that is not a given by the way). Or.... they can, for the present and while they are in a race/contention this year go with a guy who has performed admirably on both sides (offensively AND defensively).

    People can laugh and mock "veteran presence" all they want; but there are advantages to it when compared to "rookie immaturity".

    One gives you a track record of some consistency to go on (to gauge expectation)... the other does not.

    All one can say is that he has a possible "upside" (i.e. potential).

    As far as suggesting trading EE simply because he has not been playing? That is a ridiculous notion, and management, IMO, is not even considering it.
    Last edited by GAC; 07-28-2006 at 08:15 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  8. #22
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    And I'm still holding to the point of EdE's range is FAR SUPERIOR than Rich's cement shoes. Sure, Rich's got better numbers, but he lets more balls go past him. EdE can probably double the range of RA at third. EdE can make the spectacular plays - its the throwing of the easy ones that gets EdE.

    IMO, this is one time that looking at the numbers is not the basis of a true fielder. Skill and talent levels and range also determine who should play.

    I'm sure someone in the Elias Sports Bureau probably has stats to discuss the above opinion. Or, maybe Erin's main squeeze Cyclone has some numbers running around.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  9. #23
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Reading many of the posts here, I am glad none of you are or ever will be our manager, myself included

  10. #24
    Yay!
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    And I'm still holding to the point of EdE's range is FAR SUPERIOR than Rich's cement shoes. Sure, Rich's got better numbers, but he lets more balls go past him. EdE can probably double the range of RA at third. EdE can make the spectacular plays - its the throwing of the easy ones that gets EdE.

    IMO, this is one time that looking at the numbers is not the basis of a true fielder. Skill and talent levels and range also determine who should play.

    I'm sure someone in the Elias Sports Bureau probably has stats to discuss the above opinion. Or, maybe Erin's main squeeze Cyclone has some numbers running around.
    For what it's worth, I posted this:
    I found this here: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/..._200_inni ngs

    Below you will find listed the Reds and their ranking in the National League based on a stat for which you can find the methodology here: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/..._zone_rating1/

    The stat that he uses to rank is called Runs Saved (vs. average at that position). I'm going to include Runs Saved/150 games. All rankings are based on players who have 200+ innings at their position.

    C:
    Larue: 2nd/25: 14 RS/150
    Ross: 12th/25: 5 RS/150

    1B:
    Hatteberg: 2nd/21: 13 RS/150

    2B:
    Phillips: 5th/20: 5 RS/150

    3B:
    Aurilia: 9th/18: 12 RS/150
    Encarnacion: 16th/18: -18 RS/150 (Ahead of D. Wright and M. Cabrera.)

    SS:
    Lopez: 17th/17: -19 RS/150 (Dead last)

    LF:
    Dunn: 18th/19: -17 RS/150 (Ahead of Preston Wilson)

    CF:
    Freel: 11th/20: -3 RS/150
    Griffey: 20th/20: -21 RS/150 (Dead last)

    RF:
    Kearns: 5th/17: 4 RS/150
    here on July 12th. Whole thread is here: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48471

    But as was said somewhere else on the board in the last day or two, defensive metrics usually aren't worth the time it talks to talk about them.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  11. #25
    Member dunner13's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Bottom line is that EE was given a chance earlier in the year to be the everyday thirdbaseman and he proved that he cant go more than a game without making an error. And pitching and defense wins championships. No doubt EE is better offensively then aurilla but until he figures out how to make a throw to third it wont matter.

  12. #26
    Attack Cat! OUReds's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    I have been trying not to think about the Aurilia/EE fiasco recently. It's just easier that way. I would, however, like to point out this wonderful kernel from the enquirer today.

    CAN'T SIT HIM: Rich Aurilia was in the lineup again Thursday and playing third base.

    "He got pretty hot this time last year," Narron said of Aurilia. "He gives you good at-bats. He battles every at-bat."

    So apparently one of the reasons we get to see RA's monster .650 OPS against right handers every day is that, as Narron remembers it, he happened to be hot last year around this time.

    Brilliant.

  13. #27
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    And that is the key. Comparable overall offensive production, but better defense from RA, when one compares Fielding %, RF, and ZR.
    The problem is that against right handers, which is when EdE sits, their offensive production is not comparable at all (.650 OPS versus .850 OPS).

  14. #28
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by puca
    The problem is that against right handers, which is when EdE sits, their offensive production is not comparable at all (.650 OPS versus .850 OPS).
    Apparently, Rich's defense trumps the .200 point dropoff in OPS.

  15. #29
    This could be the year Phil in BG's Avatar
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    When does Denorfia go back to AAA? We've heard all year he needs to play everyday.
    You know, that is a very good point. That's the reason he wasn't on the big club all year....so he could play every day. Now we trade Kearns to open up a spot and don't play him....figure that out.

  16. #30
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    Re: Trading EdE?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM
    Apparently, Rich's defense trumps the .200 point dropoff in OPS.
    If that were the case, why play EdE even against left handers? It shouldn't hard to find a 1b that can hit lefthanders at a .750 clip. Actually they already have one in Hatt.


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