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Thread: Kyle Lohse is a Red

  1. #286
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainHook
    Huh?

    Lohse has 800+ career innings that say he is an effective league-average starter. I put a heck of a lot more stock in those 800+ innnings than I do in the 38 crappy innings he has hurled as a starter in 2006.
    A career .800 OPSA pitcher is in no way a league-average starter. He's actually worse than Paul Wilson.

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  3. #287
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    I've got no problem with acquiring Lohse for an A-ball arm, especially if he's used exclusively out of the bullpen.

    My problem stems from the fact that the Reds were able to shore up the bullpen with Guardado, Cormier, and Lohse without trading away any regulars *after* Krivsky insisted that bullpen help was hard to come by and you have to give up a lot to get it.

    Looks like he was wrong.
    Last edited by Johnny Footstool; 08-01-2006 at 12:32 PM.
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  4. #288
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    as a bullpenner Lohse would seem to profile as every bit the pitcher that Majewski is.

    However, I do not believe that Claussen is healthy. Reds may wish they had Germano back when you project how few innings Cormier is likely to pitch.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #289
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    I've got no problem with acquiring Lohse for an A-ball arm, especially if he's used exclusively out of the bullpen.

    My problem stems from the fact that the Reds were able to shore up the bullpen with Guardado, Cormier, and Lohse without trading away any regulars *after* Krivsky insisted that bullpen help was hard to come by and you have to give up a lot to get it.

    Looks like he was wrong.
    Good summarization.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  6. #290
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    A career .800 OPSA pitcher is in no way a league-average starter.
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lohseky01.shtml
    Code:
    2002 - 31 GS, 104 ERA+
    2003 - 33 GS, 100 ERA+
    2004 - 34 GS,  89 ERA+
    2005 - 30 GS, 105 ERA+
    Looks pretty average to me.

  7. #291
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    I don't really see the comparison.

    You and I might not think that Majewski and Bray are world beaters, but in a trade they are going to bring back much more value than those three.

    Guardado's arm was supposedly tied together with tape. Lohse has attitude problems and performance problems. Cormier was 39 years old coming off a terrible year.

    Bray and Majewski had much more value.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  8. #292
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    I've got no problem with acquiring Lohse for an A-ball arm, especially if he's used exclusively out of the bullpen.

    My problem stems from the fact that the Reds were able to shore up the bullpen with Guardado, Cormier, and Lohse without trading away any regulars *after* Krivsky insisted that bullpen help was hard to come by and you have to give up a lot to get it.

    Looks like he was wrong.
    The timing was wrong. WHy don't you see a bunch of trades two weeks, a month or two months before the deadline? The answer is simple, the closer you get to the deadline the more the price drops as we saw yesterday. If WK has waited he could have picked up the bullpen help a lot cheaper, he chose not to and had to overpay to get what he wanted. Without a doubt there haven't been major contributions from "the deal" that have changed the fortunes of the Reds over the 2 week period.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #293
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa
    The timing was wrong. WHy don't you see a bunch of trades two weeks, a month or two months before the deadline? The answer is simple, the closer you get to the deadline the more the price drops as we saw yesterday. If WK has waited he could have picked up the bullpen help a lot cheaper, he chose not to and had to overpay to get what he wanted. Without a doubt there haven't been major contributions from "the deal" that have changed the fortunes of the Reds over the 2 week period.
    That's the problem. How could you wait? The Reds were seriously scuffling when we made the Lopez/Kearns deal and Wayne probably made the call that if we waited for the trade deadline we would already be dead and buried.

    It's not that easy to wait till the deadline.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  10. #294
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I don't really see the comparison.

    You and I might not think that Majewski and Bray are world beaters, but in a trade they are going to bring back much more value than those three.

    Guardado's arm was supposedly tied together with tape. Lohse has attitude problems and performance problems. Cormier was 39 years old coming off a terrible year.

    Bray and Majewski had much more value.
    But if they overlap functionally, why spend so much more to fill the same need?
    4009



  11. #295
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    But if they overlap functionally, why spend so much more to fill the same need?
    Majewski and Bray are going to be bullpen studs for years to come.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #296
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I don't really see the comparison.

    You and I might not think that Majewski and Bray are world beaters, but in a trade they are going to bring back much more value than those three.

    Guardado's arm was supposedly tied together with tape. Lohse has attitude problems and performance problems. Cormier was 39 years old coming off a terrible year.

    Bray and Majewski had much more value.
    What do you think Bray or Majewski would have fetched if the Reds had tried to trade them yesterday?

    I can buy into the notion that Bray might be widely coveted as a future closer, but Majewski has spent the last two weeks pantsing his value. My guess is Bray probably wouldn't fetch you a twentysomething everyday player if you tried to move him at this moment and that Majewski definitely wouldn't.

    It's why from the outset of the deal I thought that overpaying for Bray (e.g. Kearns or Lopez) made some sense, but that Majewski was an ungainly reach.

    If the deals for Guardado, Cormier and Lohse pan out along with Bray, the Reds really didn't need Majewski for 2006. Likewise, Kearns or Lopez is more valuable than Majewski if the team wanted to make a deal for, say, a guy who might be of help in the rotation.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  13. #297
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    This trade stings a little bit.

    Loshe's numbers haven't been very good this season and Ward's, in the minors, are outstanding.

    With that....a change of leagues, and a change of teams COULD be what this guy needs.



    It's a risk I'm willing to take if it means improving this team. Wayne Krivsky has earned the benefit of the doubt in my book....unitl he butchers something, who am I to question him?

  14. #298
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw
    Ward's, in the minors, are outstanding.
    ... but not nearly as impressive when age and level are taken into account.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  15. #299
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa
    ... but not nearly as impressive when age and level are taken into account.
    Perhaps, but I think this is only his second year....he was drafted in 2003 out of college, if I remember correctly.

  16. #300
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    Re: Kyle Lohse is a Red

    I keep going back to what one Twins fan said about reminding people that Lohse is only 27 and has already one 50 games in the Majors. I've been trying to think of a comparable pitcher who has come to the Reds with a bit of a track record. I wonder if he can be like a Jack Billingham, who had been a bit lackluster with Houston prior to coming to us (career 32-32). I found this synopsis on a page about Worst Astros trades. Billingham was 29 when he came to Cincinnati.

    Jack Billingham (1969-1971). Part of the infamous "compensation" in the Rusty Staub - Donn Clendenon fiasco, Billingham joined Houston from Montreal after being claimed in the 1969 expansion draft from Los Angeles. Used out of the bullpen (6-7, 4.23) the first year, Jack worked his way into the rotation (13-9, 3.97 in 1970, 10-16, 3.35 in 1971) with little distinction. He was dealt to Cincinnati as part of the Joe Morgan trade where he benefitted from the Big Red Machine offense to notch 87 wins and two World Series rings over then next six seasons. As part of two of the worst trades in Houston history, Billingham deserves to be on this list - coming and going.
    Now Lohse is 51-57 on his career thus far. He's coming off of two consecutive 9-13 seasons and was 2-5 thus far this season. Let's hope we can find a Jack Billingham type career with the Reds.

    Again, I don't know enough of the history and I can't say whether they're similar pitchers, but I'm just saying he is someone who hadn't lit up the world prior to coming to the Reds.


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