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Thread: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    They are the biggest winners at the deadline, because they "fixed their biggest defiencies" the pen. Basically they "overpaid a bit" but with so many flawed teams in the NL we addressed our only glaring weakness.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    I will reserve judgement until after the season. I like the trades but to call the Reds "winners" is more hype than anything.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo
    They are the biggest winners at the deadline, because they "fixed their biggest defiencies" the pen. Basically they "overpaid a bit" but with so many flawed teams in the NL we addressed our only glaring weakness.
    I beg to differ. The Reds had/have a lot more than one glaring weakness.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Yep you know more than any one else and you have a way of lettingall know it.
    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I beg to differ. The Reds had/have a lot more than one glaring weakness.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba
    Yep you know more than any one else and you have a way of lettingall know it.
    No, but, unlike you, I can grasp the obvious.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Originally posted by M2
    No, but, unlike you, I can grasp the obvious.
    Actually M2 I have too disagree with you or maybe we agree on some level of which has not yet been discovered. Relative to the other NL W/C and Central contenders I think that we all have spots on our respective teams that are not ideal. Of course Clayton/Castro are one of those positions, and the rotation is not filled with stars or even a Legitimate Ace.

    But let's break it down a bit here and just see once and for all just how bad we really are at those positions and while we are at it why not look at where we might just be better than our competition. Of course the big thing here is we are going to have to assume that people are going to do what is career norms or what the majority feels a person can/will do if they don't have a ML record to speak of.

    I don't know any better way to figure this out than to 1st figure out who the contenders really are, some might be "in it" right now but may not have the staying power. So I'll list mine and then start to dissect the remaining teams and feel free to list yours as well. I will use a simple approach because I don't know any other way to be fair and unbias. Pitching + Defense + Timely Hitting = Playoffs. I may use some stats but mainly my eye will tell me the obvious, hopefully we can all agree on what the obvious is if not we may have to agree to disagree.

    The Reds have 57 games left so I will use this as the bar because everyone is different right now.

    Who are the current contenders who realistically have too big of a percieved weakness to compete?

    Milwaukee: 5 games Back of W/C, 8.5 GB of Central
    Pros- Enough Offense, Enough starting pitching (Assuming Sheets stays Healthy)
    Cons- Defense improved moving Lee but still not good with a NL worst .978 Fldg%.

    Bullpen is the worst in the NL that I have seen to date ERA is currently 5.14 (again a NL worst). The pen is devoid of any consistently proven arm except maybe the Loogy Shouse. Cordero (AL 4.81 era), Kolb (5.63) and Turnbow (6.00) could turn it around but not likely as they would All have too. I say Pretender

    'Zona: 1.5 GB of W/C
    Pros- Enough Offense, Enough defense
    Cons- Brandon Webb 2.64 era, every other starter 4.71 and above
    10th in Bullpen era @ 4.54, w/o the benefit of acquiring any significant arms. I say Pretender

    S.F.: 4 GB of W/C
    Pros- Enough defense, Borderline Pitching but perhaps enough.
    Cons- Tied for 2nd worst BA (.260) in the NL. Bonds/Alou cannot stay healthy and Bonds isn't very productive if he is. Pretenders

    Fla.: 6 GB of W/C
    Pros- Tied for 4th best team era in the NL so pitching is plenty.
    Cons- .979 Fldg pct. 2nd worst in the NL, 12th in BA .260
    Plus the youth factor says they fall short. I say Pretender

    Col.: 4.5 GB of the W/C
    Pros- The stats say they are good enough in every category to compete
    Cons- A good majority of this roster is young, and my gut say alot of these career years they are having (Atkins, several pitchers) are gonna take a nosedive. Either way I think they finish 2nd or 3rd in the west and the 2-4 in the W/C. I say Pretenders

    The Contenders
    ---------------------
    S.D., L.A., Atl., Houston, Cincy, St. Louis

    Too be broke down in the very near future.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo
    Actually M2 I have too disagree with you or maybe we agree on some level of which has not yet been discovered.
    I'll take a stroll out on a limb and guess you think the Reds had more than one glaring weakness. Others may have more or more greivous weaknesses, but I doubt you buy into the Olney/Phillips contention that the Reds were hunky-dory outside of the bullpen.

    That and the notion that Edwin Encarnacion has shown himself to be a productive hitter have been the only two things I've said in this thread.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba
    Yep you know more than any one else and you have a way of lettingall know it.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Cormier should help out the bullpen a little bit, or at least help out by cutting down our HR/9 rate. Whether Lohse is any better than what we already had remains to be seen. There's a good reason Twins fans wanted to get rid of the guy, and I'm not at all thrilled to now get to see why they wanted him gone.

    One thing I do know is that there's a glaring weakness at shortstop that can be fixed internally with what we've got on our roster, or could have been fixed externally by acquiring somebody.

    The latter didn't happen, and I'm betting the former doesn't happen, either.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    Cormier should help out the bullpen a little bit, or at least help out by cutting down our HR/9 rate. Whether Lohse is any better than what we already had remains to be seen. There's a good reason Twins fans wanted to get rid of the guy, and I'm not at all thrilled to now get to see why they wanted him gone.

    One thing I do know is that there's a glaring weakness at shortstop that can be fixed internally with what we've got on our roster, or could have been fixed externally by acquiring somebody.

    The latter didn't happen, and I'm betting the former doesn't happen, either.
    Would removing Clayton for Aurilia and putting Edwin at third really mean more runs though, or is that just something you want?

    I'm betting the latter. There's simply no way of knowing what could be. We know what we have, and what we have has worked to this point. No need to change it. Jeez, I know it's fun to play armchair manager, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Fact is, the Reds addressed their biggest weakness, the bullpen. They're a better team now. Could they be better without Clayton? Possibly. I'll take the known, though.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    Would removing Clayton for Aurilia and putting Edwin at third really mean more runs though, or is that just something you want?

    I'm betting the latter. There's simply no way of knowing what could be. We know what we have, and what we have has worked to this point. No need to change it. Jeez, I know it's fun to play armchair manager, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Fact is, the Reds addressed their biggest weakness, the bullpen. They're a better team now. Could they be better without Clayton? Possibly. I'll take the known, though.
    Getting Clayton out of the lineup for more productive hitting would be a massive asset to the offense. Replacing awful OBP/SLG marks with respectable offensive punch would lead to more run scoring. That'd be about as much of a known as anything.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    Getting Clayton out of the lineup for more productive hitting would be a massive asset to the offense. Replacing awful OBP/SLG marks with respectable offensive punch would lead to more run scoring. That'd be about as much of a known as anything.
    There is no way you could say that Ediwn's offensive numbers would be any better than Clayton's if he played everyday. He's never played everyday. That's the unknown. Not to mention Clayton at SS is a much better option than Aurilia, defensively speaking.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    There is no way you could say that Ediwn's offensive numbers would be any better than Clayton's if he played everyday. He's never played everyday. That's the unknown. Not to mention Clayton at SS is a much better option than Aurilia, defensively speaking.
    Guttle.

    What?

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    There is no way you could say that Ediwn's offensive numbers would be any better than Clayton's if he played everyday. He's never played everyday. That's the unknown. Not to mention Clayton at SS is a much better option than Aurilia, defensively speaking.
    Edwin played nearly every day the first half of the season before getting hurt. At that time I believe he was either 1st or 2nd on the team in RBI, he still leads the team in hitting with runners on and runners in scoring position, but you are probably right, I bet Clayton would outhit Edwin.....

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    There is no way you could say that Ediwn's offensive numbers would be any better than Clayton's if he played everyday. He's never played everyday. That's the unknown. Not to mention Clayton at SS is a much better option than Aurilia, defensively speaking.
    Well I suppose you could just look at the numbers Edwin put up as an everyday player before his injury and that would eliminate this mysterious unknown that seems to be plaguing your mind.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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