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Thread: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

  1. #16
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    Would removing Clayton for Aurilia and putting Edwin at third really mean more runs though, or is that just something you want?

    I'm betting the latter. There's simply no way of knowing what could be. We know what we have, and what we have has worked to this point. No need to change it. Jeez, I know it's fun to play armchair manager, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Fact is, the Reds addressed their biggest weakness, the bullpen. They're a better team now. Could they be better without Clayton? Possibly. I'll take the known, though.
    You really think Clayton has a better stick than Edwin? You can't seriously doubt that we'd produce more runs with Edwin @ 3B and Aurilia @ SS, can you?

    Jerry Narron has had "success" this year due to smoke and mirrors, and two Krivsky trades paying off. Arroyo and Phillips improved this ballclub more than any of us really imagine or can fathom. On the same note, Narron's mismanaged the hell out of this ballclub. He doesn't know when to pull his starters, much less manage a bullpen, and his handling of the "Edwin situation" is atrocious at best. The players have gotten us here, no thanks largely to Jerry Narron. The Reds would be MUCH better with a different manager. It is broke, fix it.

    The Reds for most of the year prior to the Bray deal had a horrible bullpen minus Todd Coffey. Narron tried to screw that up by making Coffey the closer, when his natural role is set up man. Krivsky went out and got us Everyday 81, so now Coffey returns to the set up role. Majewski and Bray help us immensely, and the additions of Cormier and Lohse should also strengthen the bullpen as well, but we need to put the best 8 position players out there to score runs for the pitching, and that's something Jerry Narron is incapable to do. We are winning in spite of Jerry Narron. Lemme repeat that.

    We are winning in spite of Jerry Narron.

    As for Royce Clayton, we've known him for less than a month, and I'm ready to pass judgment saying we are definitely better without him, and I hope for the sake of this organization he finds his way to the waiver wire no rush, tomorrow.

    This 2006 Reds club doesn't know its potential b/c Jerry Narron's too blind or too stupid to realize what could be.

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  3. #17
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo
    They are the biggest winners at the deadline, because they "fixed their biggest defiencies" the pen. Basically they "overpaid a bit" but with so many flawed teams in the NL we addressed our only glaring weakness.
    Of the three other teams of immediate concern to the Reds playoff hopes (Cards, Dbacks and Giants) none of them did anything to fix their flaws (Beliiard seemed a short term wash at best). Neither did the Astros, Marlins or Braves. Mets surprised me the most with their inactivity, I thought they'd go for the WS Championship and come away with Zito/Schmidt or Willis.

    Reds continued to stockpile pen arms for the dog days mainly for the price of taking on some salary considerations over the last 1/3 season.

    The Dodgers made the most interesting deadline noise with Lugo/Betemit/Maddux.

    The National League and the NL WS rep is still wide open...

  4. #18
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Posted by OldXOhio
    Interesting the mild about-face that Phillips is now doing - was he not part of the crowd claiming the Reds had killed their playoff chances with the Kearns/Lopez trade?
    Yeah he was the one I qouted saying we gave up A BIT MUCH? Thought that was interesting.

    Posted by OldXOhio
    could have sworn the rotation as well as SS were still glaring weaknesses?
    When I look at the rest of the W/C rotations and in fact all NL rotations, I don't find ours to be that bad even with Claussen. SS is likely to be a sore spot until next season it just cannot be helped now.

    Claussen: 14 GS
    ER by Game
    0 ER: 1 Game
    1 ER: 1 Game
    2 ER: 1 Game
    3 ER: 5 Games
    4 ER: 3 Games
    5 ER: 1 Game
    6,7,8 ER: 0 Games
    9 ER: 2 Games

    The 5 ER game and 2 9 ER games were MIL (9 ER 4-22 and 5 ER on 5-24-Who owns him, but we don't play again this year) And CWS (9 ER on last start 6-16, who we also do not play against). In every game except the two 9 ER appearances, he went at least 5 innings. So he effectively had 9 QS out of 14 games, got hammered only twice and had 3 so-so games. That's pretty daggone good for a 5th starter albeit he is mainly a 5 inning starter unless he has his best stuff, of course that's why we went out and strengthened the pen. Granted a 5 inning 3 run game is not construed as a QS, I'll take it.

    Show me a better NL 5th starter and I'll show you a team w/o an offense or pen as good as ours. Of course we have to play better defensively, if we do that we are in very good shape.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 07-31-2006 at 09:28 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  5. #19

    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Yep you know more than any one else and you have a way of lettingall know it.
    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I beg to differ. The Reds had/have a lot more than one glaring weakness.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

  6. #20
    Member Marty and Joe's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Based on what didn't happen, I like what the Reds (and Yankees) actually did as far as the contenders go, however, the big winners this year were..imo.....drum roll please....not a contender....never thought I'd say it....the KC Royals.

    Deals:
    Ryan Shealy (plus some reliever thrown in) for Affeldt and Denny Bautista
    Odalis Perez (plus 2 minor leaguers AND cash) for Elmer Dessens
    Tyler Lumsden and Daniel Cortes for Mike MacDougal
    Jorge DeLaRosa for Tony Graffanino

    The only recent deal they made that I didn't really like recently was Gathright for JP Howell. But, I understand why they did it and it has a chance to turn out well also.

    Getting Shealy and a bunch of arms that could turn out decent is the right way to go for an organization like this. Compare what they did to the Pirates...no contest. The Royals got more, with less.

    I agree that the Reds/Yankees were the winners of the contenders.
    Last edited by Marty and Joe; 07-31-2006 at 09:30 PM.

  7. #21
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba
    Yep you know more than any one else and you have a way of lettingall know it.
    No, but, unlike you, I can grasp the obvious.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  8. #22
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    What I don't understand is why Narron doesn't put Hatte at 1B, Aurilia at 2B, Phillips at SS, and EdE at 3B. That is the best 4 that we could put out there and it eliminates Clayton from the equation...seems so easy....

  9. #23
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by SC Reds Fans
    What I don't understand is why Narron doesn't put Hatte at 1B, Aurilia at 2B, Phillips at SS, and EdE at 3B. That is the best 4 that we could put out there and it eliminates Clayton from the equation...seems so easy....
    But would it mean more wins? No one can possibly know. THAT is the unknown. The fact is, they're winning games right now, why change it because it could be better the other way. You simply don't do that when your in the playoffs as we speak.

    Personally, I think that your idea makes sense on paper, but I can't fathom wanting Narron to change something that is winning. You don't do that.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  10. #24
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba
    Yep you know more than any one else and you have a way of lettingall know it.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  11. #25
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    But would it mean more wins? No one can possibly know. THAT is the unknown. The fact is, they're winning games right now, why change it because it could be better the other way. You simply don't do that when your in the playoffs as we speak.

    Personally, I think that your idea makes sense on paper, but I can't fathom wanting Narron to change something that is winning. You don't do that.
    Are you kidding? You actually think Clayton has had anything to do with the team winning anything?

  12. #26
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44
    Are you kidding? You actually think Clayton has had anything to do with the team winning anything?
    No, I don't think he's kidding.

    Clayton has actually done something good in a few games we've won. I don't see how you can say "are you kidding".

    Yeah he probably isn't the best option right now, but he didn't go 0-100.

    Again I'm not arguing that Clayton is the best option or even a decent option, but I doubt he's not helped us win one game.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  13. #27
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Clayton had a TERRIBLE, I'm out of it game on Sat. I was appalled as I'm sure most of you were. However, I'm willing to give him at least one more shot. He is giving us at least the ABs that Lopez was doing.
    VBR IS LIVING IN CINCINNATI...I FEEL GOOD!

  14. #28
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    No, I don't think he's kidding.

    Clayton has actually done something good in a few games we've won. I don't see how you can say "are you kidding".

    Yeah he probably isn't the best option right now, but he didn't go 0-100.

    Again I'm not arguing that Clayton is the best option or even a decent option, but I doubt he's not helped us win one game.
    Odds are, in the 9 games he's appeared in for the Reds when they've won, he would have did something positive. Here's his stats in those 9 wins:

    8-31 with 3 RBI and 3 run scored. 2 walks. 2 XBHs. Not really too spectacular. And a few errors to boot.

  15. #29
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Originally posted by M2
    No, but, unlike you, I can grasp the obvious.
    Actually M2 I have too disagree with you or maybe we agree on some level of which has not yet been discovered. Relative to the other NL W/C and Central contenders I think that we all have spots on our respective teams that are not ideal. Of course Clayton/Castro are one of those positions, and the rotation is not filled with stars or even a Legitimate Ace.

    But let's break it down a bit here and just see once and for all just how bad we really are at those positions and while we are at it why not look at where we might just be better than our competition. Of course the big thing here is we are going to have to assume that people are going to do what is career norms or what the majority feels a person can/will do if they don't have a ML record to speak of.

    I don't know any better way to figure this out than to 1st figure out who the contenders really are, some might be "in it" right now but may not have the staying power. So I'll list mine and then start to dissect the remaining teams and feel free to list yours as well. I will use a simple approach because I don't know any other way to be fair and unbias. Pitching + Defense + Timely Hitting = Playoffs. I may use some stats but mainly my eye will tell me the obvious, hopefully we can all agree on what the obvious is if not we may have to agree to disagree.

    The Reds have 57 games left so I will use this as the bar because everyone is different right now.

    Who are the current contenders who realistically have too big of a percieved weakness to compete?

    Milwaukee: 5 games Back of W/C, 8.5 GB of Central
    Pros- Enough Offense, Enough starting pitching (Assuming Sheets stays Healthy)
    Cons- Defense improved moving Lee but still not good with a NL worst .978 Fldg%.

    Bullpen is the worst in the NL that I have seen to date ERA is currently 5.14 (again a NL worst). The pen is devoid of any consistently proven arm except maybe the Loogy Shouse. Cordero (AL 4.81 era), Kolb (5.63) and Turnbow (6.00) could turn it around but not likely as they would All have too. I say Pretender

    'Zona: 1.5 GB of W/C
    Pros- Enough Offense, Enough defense
    Cons- Brandon Webb 2.64 era, every other starter 4.71 and above
    10th in Bullpen era @ 4.54, w/o the benefit of acquiring any significant arms. I say Pretender

    S.F.: 4 GB of W/C
    Pros- Enough defense, Borderline Pitching but perhaps enough.
    Cons- Tied for 2nd worst BA (.260) in the NL. Bonds/Alou cannot stay healthy and Bonds isn't very productive if he is. Pretenders

    Fla.: 6 GB of W/C
    Pros- Tied for 4th best team era in the NL so pitching is plenty.
    Cons- .979 Fldg pct. 2nd worst in the NL, 12th in BA .260
    Plus the youth factor says they fall short. I say Pretender

    Col.: 4.5 GB of the W/C
    Pros- The stats say they are good enough in every category to compete
    Cons- A good majority of this roster is young, and my gut say alot of these career years they are having (Atkins, several pitchers) are gonna take a nosedive. Either way I think they finish 2nd or 3rd in the west and the 2-4 in the W/C. I say Pretenders

    The Contenders
    ---------------------
    S.D., L.A., Atl., Houston, Cincy, St. Louis

    Too be broke down in the very near future.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  16. #30
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo
    Actually M2 I have too disagree with you or maybe we agree on some level of which has not yet been discovered.
    I'll take a stroll out on a limb and guess you think the Reds had more than one glaring weakness. Others may have more or more greivous weaknesses, but I doubt you buy into the Olney/Phillips contention that the Reds were hunky-dory outside of the bullpen.

    That and the notion that Edwin Encarnacion has shown himself to be a productive hitter have been the only two things I've said in this thread.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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