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Thread: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

  1. #31
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    But would it mean more wins? No one can possibly know. THAT is the unknown. The fact is, they're winning games right now, why change it because it could be better the other way. You simply don't do that when your in the playoffs as we speak.

    Personally, I think that your idea makes sense on paper, but I can't fathom wanting Narron to change something that is winning. You don't do that.
    You keep hanging onto this "there's no way to know if they win more games", yet you also claim the bullpen is improved making the Reds better. Can you prove that this improved bullpen will lead to more wins? Nope, according to you, "no one can possibly know." If the Reds started Castro and Clayton every game and replaced Harang and Arroyo with Joe Mays and Kyle Lohse, could you prove that they wouldn't win more games. According to you, "no one can possibly know." But I bet you believe that keeping Harang and Arroyo in the rotation will lead to more wins. Why? Because better players lead to more wins. Throwing out the old "you can't prove the unknown" is basically denying that better players lead to more wins. And we all know that better players DO lead to more wins. So we can please lay to rest the "no on can possibly know" line? I do know that playing better players will lead to more wins.

    Oh, and they were winning MORE games when EdE was playing everyday early in the season.
    Last edited by MWM; 07-31-2006 at 11:28 PM.
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  3. #32
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'll take a stroll out on a limb and guess you think the Reds had more than one glaring weakness. Others may have more or more greivous weaknesses, but I doubt you buy into the Olney/Phillips contention that the Reds were hunky-dory outside of the bullpen.

    That and the notion that Edwin Encarnacion has shown himself to be a productive hitter have been the only two things I've said in this thread.
    To be fair they said "one glaring weakness"

    That sounds to me like they are saying we shored up the only gigantic hole on this roster, not that everything is perfect.

    Just the way I read it.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  4. #33
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    But would it mean more wins? No one can possibly know. THAT is the unknown. The fact is, they're winning games right now, why change it because it could be better the other way. You simply don't do that when your in the playoffs as we speak.

    Personally, I think that your idea makes sense on paper, but I can't fathom wanting Narron to change something that is winning. You don't do that.
    yes it would. by every metric and definition, putting your best players on the field increases your probability for wins. Clayton hurts this team far more than FeLo ever did. But that is water under the Washington Monument now.

    EE at 3B has more range than RA. Phillips brings a better game than Clayton offensively and defensively.

    So really it should be would you rather have EE's bat or Claytons? Phillips glove or Clayton's?

    This is no-brainer stuff.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #34
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    To be fair they said "one glaring weakness"

    That sounds to me like they are saying we shored up the only gigantic hole on this roster, not that everything is perfect.

    Just the way I read it.
    I read it that way too and it don't see how you can't call the overall lousy team defense a gigantic hole or 2/5 of the rotation being manned by punching bags or the SS position being manned by two of the worst hitters in history neither of whom is any good with the leather.

    In short, it's the kind of over-simplistic meaningless drivel I'd expect from Olney and Phillips. There's still some profound gaps on this team. It might overcome them. Other teams might be worse off, but I assume that most every poster on this site recognizes the Reds still have a number of faults which could croak them.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  6. #35
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Countless.

    I'm odd, I'm not really that worried about Royce Clayton at this point.

    Milton, Ramirez, and the unknown are what completely unnerves me. I don't have the confidence that some do in Elizardo.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  7. #36
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Let me say this: I love watching Elizardo pitch. smooth as buttah. And he's progressing. He throws as hard as Harang, and that change is becoming a real out pitch.

    If he keeps progressing this year, he could be a force for quite a while.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #37
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Elizardo might be close to Harang in terms of velocity, but he doesn't have near the late action that Harang does. We've seen that Elizardo's stuff is extremely location dependent. Harang can get away with not having a great feel for his breaking pitches, Elizardo has no room.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  9. #38
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    But would it mean more wins? No one can possibly know. THAT is the unknown. The fact is, they're winning games right now, why change it because it could be better the other way. You simply don't do that when your in the playoffs as we speak.

    Personally, I think that your idea makes sense on paper, but I can't fathom wanting Narron to change something that is winning. You don't do that.
    Napoleon: This is pretty much the worst video ever made.
    Kip: Napoleon, like anyone could even know that.
    Uncle Rico: You know what, Napoleon? You can leave!
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  10. #39
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski
    Napoleon: This is pretty much the worst video ever made.
    Kip: Napoleon, like anyone could even know that.
    Uncle Rico: You know what, Napoleon? You can leave!
    Is this picture flipped? I seem to remember Rico and Kip being on the opposite sides of the couch.

    GL

  11. #40
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    Edwin's offensive numbers would absolutely dwarf Clayton's;
    I think Castro's would dwarf Clayton's!

    I firmly believe that the reason why they haven't "juggled" players in this INF - as suggested on here, and which I agree with - EE (3rd), BP (SS), Aurilia/Freel (2B) - and by the way, I think Deno is getting a raw deal as far as RF goes - is the fear of shaking it up too much when we are in the thick of it. I don't know of very many teams that would make that many moves past the halfway mark when they still have a strong shot going into August.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  12. #41
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong
    Is this picture flipped? I seem to remember Rico and Kip being on the opposite sides of the couch.

    GL
    They were in the scene in which the dialogue I posted took place.

    This is just a general pic of the three.

    You may recall Uncle Rico wore that sweet-ass shirt when he took Napoleon shopping and scolded Napoleon in front of Summer Wheatley for buying the 12 pack. Money doesn't grow on trees in that family.
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  13. #42
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Someone actually wondered who would be the more productive offensive player--Clayton or Encarnacion?

    This is up for debate? Seriously?
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  14. #43
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    Elizardo might be close to Harang in terms of velocity, but he doesn't have near the late action that Harang does. We've seen that Elizardo's stuff is extremely location dependent. Harang can get away with not having a great feel for his breaking pitches, Elizardo has no room.
    Harang is also 28, and in his 5th season as a starter. Ramirez is developing right in front of us, and right now has some similar numbers harang had in 2004. Harang was 26 then. Elizardo is 23 right now, and has better control than Harang had in 2004. Their K/9 numbers are close 6.00 for EZ, 6.99 for Harang 2004.

    So yeah, I like what I see in Elizardo Ramirez.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #44
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    Someone actually wondered who would be the more productive offensive player--Clayton or Encarnacion?

    This is up for debate? Seriously?
    No one's stated that at all. If you're talking about me, GAC pretty much summed up my thoughts.


    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    I think Castro's would dwarf Clayton's!

    I firmly believe that the reason why they haven't "juggled" players in this INF - as suggested on here, and which I agree with - EE (3rd), BP (SS), Aurilia/Freel (2B) - and by the way, I think Deno is getting a raw deal as far as RF goes - is the fear of shaking it up too much when we are in the thick of it. I don't know of very many teams that would make that many moves past the halfway mark when they still have a strong shot going into August.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  16. #45
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips & Olney Agree on Reds

    I got a good laugh from Buster Olney basically calling out Steve Phillips during the Deadline show yesterday. Phillips kind of avoided it, like he usually does, and got on the Reds side.

    I used to get on Buster, but he really is the only one who has looked at the Reds moves based more on the move and more objectively than the "names" they got back.

    Phillips said the Yanks were the winners, which they very well could be, but it's more because of the name "Bobby Abreu" than anything else.


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