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Thread: Loshe to start Sunday

  1. #46
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Its not just the 5th starter on this club though. The 4ths starter is a train wreck in progress most nights and the third is a work in progress.

    If #'s 3 and 4 were more solid, I wouldnt mind much what the Reds did with the 5 spot.
    Last edited by deltachi8; 08-03-2006 at 08:13 PM.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

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  3. #47
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    something to ponder

    Dan (NY): When we look back on this trade deadline two years from now, which lower-profile deal is most likely to be considered highway robbery?

    SportsNation Jim Callis: I'll throw out a couple . . . Zach Ward for washed-up Kyle Lohse . . . Ryan Shealy for a couple of guys with big arms and no command . . . Hector Luna may turn out to be just as good as Ronnie Belliard . . . Tyler Lumsden for Mike MacDougal . . . Shairon Martis for Mike Stanton. I also think Craig Wilson will help the Yankees a lot more than Shawn Chacon will help the Pirates, but you knew that already. I think my golden retrievers knew that already.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  4. #48
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    As are all those Chattanooga relievers... what's the difference?

    Sometimes you can get surprised by a turn around.

    Josh Hancock says hi.
    Hancock was a guy that posted far better number (small sample) as a reliever than as a starter. He did go something like 5-1 as a starter 2 years ago for the reds, but really, dude doesn't have much of a track record at all. his three year splits (2002-2005) show he is far better in relief than as a starter.

    Lohse has a very difinitive record that clearly shows his DECLINE as a starter. His K numbers are far better as a reliever. He's a better pitcher as a reliever period.

    So why start him? And BTW, the guys I advocated at both AA and AAA were always relievers, or to be used as relievers like Pelland.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #49
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    So why start him?
    OK, so don't. Who are you giving the ball to Saturday, then?

    For what it's worth, I don't expect Lohse to be good, exactly. Less disastrous than the dreck we've been running out in the #5 slot all year, and most everyone else has in their #5 slot? Maybe. Fingers crossed.

    Ideally, we can swing a waiver deal for someone better soon, but it's too early for anyone to have cleared waivers yet, I think.
    Not all who wander are lost

  6. #50
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed
    OK, so don't. Who are you giving the ball to Saturday, then?
    Claussen is the only other option right now. Maybe the Reds can just make it a bullpen night?

  7. #51
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic
    Let's give him a chance to be something he has been up until a terrible start this season. If he is just the league average pitcher he has been up until this season, do you know how much of an improvement that would be? Do you know how far Claussen has to go to have the track record Lohse has? Who else do you suggest get the start?

    No one is expecting him to morph into Cy Young. He's being pushed into the fifth starter's spot because we don't have any other good options. Look around -- precious few teams have good options in that spot. If Lohse can give give them five or six innings and keep them in the game, that's all anyone can ask. And looking at this guy's track record, that's not asking for the sun to rise in the west.

    For crying out loud, just slit your wrists and get it over with.
    wow. really can't get enough of you telling the rest of us how to think.

    I gan be mad that the GM of the team I have followed for almost 30 years insists on signing Joe Mays, Yan and others of that ilk if I want to. The guy (Lohse) has been in a decline for three years. K's dropping. OPS rising. you think he'll not only be what he was when he first came up with the Twins, but that he'll actually progress from that point. OK. it won't happen, but ok.

    Hey, I hope he goes 8, and K's 8. I hope the Reds win and he throws a shut out. But if he gives up less than 5 runs, I'll be stunned. But he might. Mays only gave up 4 in his first start. And where is he now?

    And think about this: The Twins are in the middle of the WC race and they gave him up for a guy at Low A ball.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #52
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    to this point in the season Lohse and Claussen have been about the same pictcher, both -12 RAA.

    With the dealing of Germano, the options are limited if there is no chance they bring up Bailey.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #53
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    BTW, Hudson has been pitching well for KC as a starter.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #54
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa
    BTW, Hudson has been pitching well for KC as a starter.
    4.67 ERA with a 1.35 WHIP overall. The numbers are even better as a starter. That's not world-beater stuff but it's better than what Claussen has given us so far.

  11. #55
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    IMO, comparing Lohse to other dreck on the pitching market misses the larger point.

    It didn't take a genius to figure out the Reds were getting boxed into this corner. They've already got starting pitching problems. Eric Milton's still in the rotation and getting kicked around. Elizardo Ramirez may very well be turning back into a pumpkin in front of our eyes. The Reds didn't/don't need a #5 starter. They really need another #3 starter.

    The Reds needed to make a serious play for a starting pitcher in July and they came out of it with Kyle Lohse, a guy who probably should spend the rest of his career in the pen (at least if you want to entertain the notion of him actually pitching well on a consistent basis and helping your team).

    Obviously the Reds lack appealing options -- that's the problem. They had to see this coming and the guy they acquired is likely to act as an anchor instead of a buoy. "Well, he shouldn't be as awful as Joe Mays and Dave Williams" in no way constitutes meaningful help to a team trying to get to October. Bad pitching always hurts.

    This is just another obstacle the team is going to have to conquer if it wants to make the playoffs. The sad part of it is, it's an obstacle the management put in the team's way.
    Last edited by M2; 08-03-2006 at 11:48 AM.
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  12. #56
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Lohse has a very difinitive record that clearly shows his DECLINE as a starter.
    True, but in AAA this year he has good numbers as a starter, you want promotion to the Reds for their AA relievers based on the same critera, then you should allow this "spot start" to occur rather then act as if it's some blight on the game. Plenty of losers have been getting spot starts and 5th start slots for 30 years now, it's a hard slot to fill.... otherwise we never would have heard of this.

    Weaver's Seventh Law: It's easier to find four good starters than five

    Fact is Jose Lima and Geremi Gonzalez have started 7 of the Mets games this year, it's a hard slot to fill.

  13. #57
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM
    4.67 ERA with a 1.35 WHIP overall. The numbers are even better as a starter. That's not world-beater stuff but it's better than what Claussen has given us so far.
    in 4 starts his ERA is 3.42

    and those starts have been against Boston, LA, Texas and Chicago. Those are 4 excellent hitting teams. In those starts Hudson has become a GB machine 42/19 GB/FB ratio. 21K/7BB ratio. With those numbers the results are not a fluke. Very interesting.

    Luke has always been a flyball pitcher until this year with a GB/FB ratio of 2.28.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #58
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    IMO, comparing Lohse to other dreck on the pitching market misses the larger point.
    That he needs to be a reliever on this team.

    One can only hope that Claussen rights his ship and pushes Lohse down the ladder. I'd like his stuff in the BP, not in the starting slot.... and he'll have all the Fox viewers Saturday afternoon to see him try and prove us all wrong.

  15. #59
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed
    OK, so don't. Who are you giving the ball to Saturday, then?

    For what it's worth, I don't expect Lohse to be good, exactly. Less disastrous than the dreck we've been running out in the #5 slot all year, and most everyone else has in their #5 slot? Maybe. Fingers crossed.

    Ideally, we can swing a waiver deal for someone better soon, but it's too early for anyone to have cleared waivers yet, I think.
    That's a good question, but leads to a larger look. 1st I wouldn't have traded Germano with questions about Claussen's health and effectiveness. And Germano pitched a better game than Lohse has as a starter all year. 2nd since that dumb move was made, I guess I'd look at Dumatrait or Chris Michalak. Not great options, though I think Dumatrait might hold his own as LH pitchers seem to do well never having been seen before. Seem being the key word.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #60
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Loshe to start saturday

    Ahh.... more card shuffling in the subway stairwell.

    http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

    The Reds are now saying Kyle Lohse will start Sunday (against Smoltz) and Bronson Arroyo will get the ball Saturday. That means Arroyo will be going on short rest after throwing 109 pitches Tuesday.

    Guess we'll have to wait a couple more hours to find out the reasoning behind this one, but I am curious...


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