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Thread: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

  1. #1
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Seriously.

    Burns, Hammond, White & Co may not have been good, but it didn't cost us Kearns/Lopez/Wagner/Ward/Etc to employ those guys, and they charged a helluva lot less to blow ballgames.

    Majewski, Cormier, etc...ridiculous. Saddest part is that we can never get to the ONE guy who appears to have been a good acquisition in Guardado b/c we installed him as the closer and these Keystone Cops (the offense/defense is also complicit in this) can never deliver him a lead.

    Krivsky's paying the piper for the great breaks he got on the Phillips/Ross/Hatte deals. I'd undo each deal with the exception of the Chick/Guardado trade if I had the power to make it happen.
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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    I don't think it really matters if its fixed or not. I said way back when, and still believe, that this team has losing so deeply ingrained in it that they will find a way to not get it done.

    In May we had the best month of pitching in years so the offense tanked. If the offense and pitching are ok the defense will get us. Mix in frequently poor base running, long lapses in plate discipline and the whole Narron laundry list and its all pretty well covered.

    I think the team DNA got a cleansing in the AK/FeLo deal no matter how we all feel about it in terms of talent for talent, but I think they still have a long way to go.

  4. #3
    Member CTA513's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Someone posted stats of the bullpen before and after the trade and the after trade ERA was like 1.5-2 runs lower.

  5. #4
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    The post 2 above me is rediculous. Losing engrained in a team? Come on.

    Anyways, yes I believe this bullpen is greatly improved. Sure - it's just probably average now, but that's a lot better than it was at the beginning of the season. The offense hasn't taken that much of a hit, but is rather in a slump. I remember back in May and June we had two offensive slumps of about a week or so. These offensive slumps were not permanent, and I think it's stupid to think that just losing Lopez (a .260 batter) and Kearns is going to do something this drastic to the offense.

    The bullpen is improved, no doubt. Hopefully the Reds offensive slumping and Arroyo slumping will come to a halt so that the Reds can see the bullpen actively helping to gather some wins.

    Afterall, the Cards have lost 7 straight. We are still right in the division hunt, and that's something.
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  6. #5
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsrule2500
    The post 2 above me is rediculous. Losing engrained in a team? Come on.
    So they have won so much the last few years it makes my opinion "rediculous?"

    How about you just say your piece without being so condescending all the time or just PM me if you prefer to hurl insults. Baseless sniping like this from those who feel we shouldn't question this team, its manager or GM is what's rediculous. Debate the point or just leave it alone.

  7. #6
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D
    So they have won so much the last few years it makes my opinion "rediculous?"

    How about you just say your piece without being so condescending all the time or just PM me if you prefer to hurl insults. Baseless sniping like this from those who feel we shouldn't question this team, its manager or GM is what's rediculous. Debate the point or just leave it alone.
    If the 2003 team was still on the field, I would agree. This is a different team.
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    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    There's something to be said for a culture of losing. Read Bronson's quote when he was traded to Cincy.

    You can't just cure losing. You have to beat it off. It needs to know that it is not welcome here. Thus far, we've done only enough to let it know that it is only welcome now and then. His visits have been far too frequent lately.
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  9. #8
    Baseball card addict MrCinatit's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D
    I don't think it really matters if its fixed or not. I said way back when, and still believe, that this team has losing so deeply ingrained in it that they will find a way to not get it done.
    In May we had the best month of pitching in years so the offense tanked. If the offense and pitching are ok the defense will get us. Mix in frequently poor base running, long lapses in plate discipline and the whole Narron laundry list and its all pretty well covered.
    I think the team DNA got a cleansing in the AK/FeLo deal no matter how we all feel about it in terms of talent for talent, but I think they still have a long way to go.
    I could not have said it better myself.
    I believe the "this is a fun place to play" mentality we saw early last year did some damage to this ballclub. Yeah, the players should have fun - when winning.
    They should be completely miserable and hungry when losing.

  10. #9
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski
    There's something to be said for a culture of losing. Read Bronson's quote when he was traded to Cincy.

    You can't just cure losing. You have to beat it off. It needs to know that it is not welcome here. Thus far, we've done only enough to let it know that it is only welcome now and then. His visits have been far too frequent lately.
    It will take a team fighting its way to a winning season to change it, bringing in 25 guys from a winning team might work as well but it's expensive.
    Go Gators!

  11. #10
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Maybe if it is sooo engrained the Reds should hire a sports psychiatrist like that one from the Natural.

    The mind is a strange thing, men.



    We must begin by asking it...



    ..."What is losing?"



    Losing is a disease...



    ...as contagious as polio.



    Losing is a disease...



    ...as contagious as syphilis.



    Losing is a disease...



    ...as contagious as bubonic plague...



    ... attacking one...



    ... but infecting all.



    But curable.



    Now, I want you to imagine...



    ...you are on a ship at sea...



    ...on a vast...



    You wanna sit down and pay attention?



    ...gently rocking.



    Get back in here!



    Gently rocking.



    Gently rocking.



    Gently rocking.

  12. #11
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Yes, but only marginally. What the Reds really needed was some guys that could miss bats (like Saito and Broxton for the Dodgers), they didn't get any.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    The bullpen is substantially better, but remember how bad it was before.

  14. #13
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    I hate to be blunt but Kearns and Lopez aren't coming back.

    Get over it.

    Seriously.

    This team is much better off now than with them on the team. OF bats and poor fielding SS's are a dime a dozen. I'm sorry we aren't losing game 9-6 now and instead are losing 4-3 or whatever, but Kearns and Felo aren't cowboys and this Reds team isn't an outlaw that they need to tame.

    It's a baseball team. Slumps happen. Team wide slumps happen. In a few days it will be over.

    Somehow I doubt this complaining will end anytime soon though, even after the slump is over.

    Blame Narrons lineup construction, not Krivsky for doing exactly what everyone on this board asked for, getting more pitching help and jettisoning the riff raff we called a bull pen the first 3 months of the season. Did you expect it to happen without a cost? As time has passed this trade has seemed less and less lopsided. Bray has had all of one rough outing that I recall. How many have Kearns and Lopez had in Washington? I wager its more than one each. In fact they stunk the first couple weeks there.

    Yeah, Clayton is horrid, but this deal was the only way the Reds could dream about the post season, if anyone thinks differently then they are being a bit delusional.

    Don't forget, Rick White....don't forget Mike Burns....don't forget Esteban Yan....don't forget Chris Hammond. Where were those horses going to take us? Not the wild card, not the post season.

    I'm frustrated too, I really am. But soon they'll win 8 of 10 and this will be forgotten.

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  15. #14
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph
    I hate to be blunt but Kearns and Lopez aren't coming back.

    Get over it.

    Seriously.

    This team is much better off now than with them on the team. OF bats and poor fielding SS's are a dime a dozen. I'm sorry we aren't losing game 9-6 now and instead are losing 4-3 or whatever, but Kearns and Felo aren't cowboys and this Reds team isn't an outlaw that they need to tame.

    It's a baseball team. Slumps happen. Team wide slumps happen. In a few days it will be over.

    Somehow I doubt this complaining will end anytime soon though, even after the slump is over.

    Blame Narrons lineup construction, not Krivsky for doing exactly what everyone on this board asked for, getting more pitching help and jettisoning the riff raff we called a bull pen the first 3 months of the season. Did you expect it to happen without a cost? As time has passed this trade has seemed less and less lopsided. Bray has had all of one rough outing that I recall. How many have Kearns and Lopez had in Washington? I wager its more than one each. In fact they stunk the first couple weeks there.

    Yeah, Clayton is horrid, but this deal was the only way the Reds could dream about the post season, if anyone thinks differently then they are being a bit delusional.

    Don't forget, Rick White....don't forget Mike Burns....don't forget Esteban Yan....don't forget Chris Hammond. Where were those horses going to take us? Not the wild card, not the post season.

    I'm frustrated too, I really am. But soon they'll win 8 of 10 and this will be forgotten.
    I hope you're right. I'm going to stop beating The Trade to death, although it will take me a while to get over it as I was a big fan of both Austin and Felipe.

    I hope they win 8 out of 10. Hell, I just hope they win tonight & we'll go from there. Losing 2 of 3 or getting swept by the Braves could be catastrophic.
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  16. #15
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    Re: Is The Bullpen Any Better Now?

    Marc is right, you must clean house sometimes. Neither Kearns nor Lopez are "difference making" players and neither would have brought us a good starter in return. We can debate the quality of Bray and Majewski all day long and perhaps time will show that this trade didn't make us any BETTER, but I guarantee you it didn't make us any WORSE. What it did do was make us DIFFERENT, which, IMO, is important-- as long as it's part of a larger plan.


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