Need an Explanation.

[killuminati35]

Please can somebody give me an intelligent answer to this question?

Why do most members of this board cry and moan everytime EE is not in the line-up?

He is tied for the second most errors amongst 3B in the entire Major Leagues. The only person ahead of him is A-Rod and he has played in 41 more games than EE. In fact if you look at the 3B with the most errors in the entire league, they all have played 100 or more so games. EE has only played 62. Think how many errors he would have if he would have played in 40 more games.

On top of that RA has the same batting averge, better slugging, and slightly lower OBP, and 1/4 the errors.


Why the complaining?

[Razor Shines]

Edit: You changed it.

[Team Clark]

I wonder that myself. The error he had tonight was inexcusable. Sharp grounder to his left, he made a great play, got to his feet, and throws it 8 feet in front of 1B. Ridiculous. I like EE. He will be good in time. He's just too risky to play everyday with playoffs on the line.

Rich isn't the greatest ballplayer in the history of the game but he's putting up good numbers. He's not hitting .210 and striking out every other AB.

[reds44]

I wonder that myself. The error he had tonight was inexcusable. Sharp grounder to his left, he made a great play, got to his feet, and throws it 8 feet in front of 1B. Ridiculous. I like EE. He will be good in time. He's just too risky to play everyday with playoffs on the line.

Rich isn't the greatest ballplayer in the history of the game but he's putting up good numbers. He's not hitting .210 and striking out every other AB.

Rich doesn't even get to that ball if he is playing 3B, and 95% of 1st baseman pick that ball. It was a bad throw, but not unpickable.

Did he not have the go ahead 2 run double in the 7th?

People complain because he is a 23 year old basically rookie who has been our 2nd or 3rd best hitter much of the year. He has 45 rbis in 226 ABs (1 RBI every 5 ABs) and Rich has 41 in 280 Abs (1 RBI every 6.8 ABs). Edwin has a better BA, OBP, and OPS and he is 11 years younger. Edwin makes a lot of errors, but he has gets to alot of balls Rich doesn't.

[MrCinatit]

Edwin does indeed get to a lot of balls Rich and Castro do not get to, and he does have quicker hands and reflexs.
Yes, he has made a lot of errors. Many are of the throwing variey - but this is not the first time he has been charged with an error that most 1st basemen would make (re: Rich, slower hands).
The kid is in the development stages - yet even in that stage, is is better than many who are beyond those stages.
If we continue benching him, we will end up with another Wily Mo on our hands - a kid with a lot of potential, but no production...a kid we will keep pushing to the corners of the bench until he is pushed out the door and produces for another ballclub.
This would be yet another tragedy.

[realistic]

Please can somebody give me an intelligent answer to this question?

Why do most members of this board cry and moan everytime EE is not in the line-up?

He is tied for the second most errors amongst 3B in the entire Major Leagues. The only person ahead of him is A-Rod and he has played in 41 more games than EE. In fact if you look at the 3B with the most errors in the entire league, they all have played 100 or more so games. EE has only played 62. Think how many errors he would have if he would have played in 40 more games.

On top of that RA has the same batting averge, better slugging, and slightly lower OBP, and 1/4 the errors.


Why the complaining?

The answer to the question is simple.

Most Reds fans are used to looking ahead to "next year" and worrying about the future. Youth brings hope and optimisim. Its the nature of the sportsfan to admire ,and overvalue, the younger players and dream about what they can possibly accomplish for the next ten years - veterans have reached their ceiling already and the package is out of the box and opened.

Baseball fans, specifically Reds fans, are dreamers and not very realistic or practical at times. These are the same people that moaned when Guardado was acquired (7 for 7 in save opps baby!) and whined when a dime a dozen minor leaguer with mechanics issues was traded for a proven major leaguer with quality stuff. The same fans who defend Dunn's outfield defense and in the next breath complain about Junior's.
Sure I get all warm and fuzzy when I dream that we may have a future allstar at 3b, but i want to win this year and I think we lose more on defense using EE than we gain on offense at this time.

[oregonred]

Edwin does indeed get to a lot of balls Rich and Castro do not get to, and he does have quicker hands and reflexs.
Yes, he has made a lot of errors. Many are of the throwing variey - but this is not the first time he has been charged with an error that most 1st basemen would make (re: Rich, slower hands).
The kid is in the development stages - yet even in that stage, is is better than many who are beyond those stages.
If we continue benching him, we will end up with another Wily Mo on our hands - a kid with a lot of potential, but no production...a kid we will keep pushing to the corners of the bench until he is pushed out the door and produces for another ballclub.
This would be yet another tragedy.

I'd disagree and say the Kearns + Lopez trade makes EE more of a fixture in a Reds uniform. He's cheap and I think the Reds FO is well aware that he is a special player. Krivsky will build the offense for the forseeable future around Dunn + EE and the infield defense around Phillips. Brandon is a pup too and Narron has penciled him into the lineup everyday almost since he was acquired.

[schroomytunes]

I think the explanation is well deserved. EE does deserve to be in the lineup everyday, but Narron is the one to blame. Sure EE has alot of errors, but he's young and want's to impress. The ideal infield should be with our current players 3b)EE 2b)Phillips 1b)Hatteberg SS)Clayton/Aurilia. My reasons: Hatteberg can handle the bad throws better, and EE has the range to cover Aurilia's lack of. We need all the offense we can get at this point, we have the pitching, but we need bigger bats in the lineup.

[realistic]

Sure EE has alot of errors, but he's young and want's to impress.

I think thats the form of logic and excuse making the OP is asking about. Im reminded of Woody Harrelson wisely explaining to Wesley Snipes that he would rather win ugly than lose pretty.

[howyoufreelin]

People complain because quite frankly, Edwin is one of the best bats on our team and our best hitter with runners in scoring position. Didn't he just pick up a vital double that gave us the lead tonight. Yes, he does make alot of throwing errors, but he makes a bunch of amazing plays in the field as well, and he has so much more range at third than Aurilia it's rediculous. Keeping his bat out of the lineup is absurd.

[MrCinatit]

I'd disagree and say the Kearns + Lopez trade makes EE more of a fixture in a Reds uniform. He's cheap and I think the Reds FO is well aware that he is a special player. Krivsky will build the offense for the forseeable future around Dunn + EE and the infield defense around Phillips. Brandon is a pup too and Narron has penciled him into the lineup everyday almost since he was acquired.

I really hope you are right - i would like to see Edwin on this team a long time. I guess this is why I do not appreciate seeing him wasted as such by the onfield management.

[Team Clark]

Rich doesn't even get to that ball if he is playing 3B, and 95% of 1st baseman pick that ball. It was a bad throw, but not unpickable.

Did he not have the go ahead 2 run double in the 7th?

People complain because he is a 23 year old basically rookie who has been our 2nd or 3rd best hitter much of the year. He has 45 rbis in 226 ABs (1 RBI every 5 ABs) and Rich has 41 in 280 Abs (1 RBI every 6.8 ABs). Edwin has a better BA, OBP, and OPS and he is 11 years younger. Edwin makes a lot of errors, but he has gets to alot of balls Rich doesn't.

I'll give you the fact that EE has more range than Rich. He sure better!! True it was pickable, but geez you can't get it within 3 feet of him? This is the big leagues.

His BA is certainly better than I expected. I'm beginning to think it's because how they are playing him not just that he is that good of a hitter. He's learning and doing a good job of making adjustments. BTW, that double was a great job of hitting. Looked like a fastball down and he reacted to it and drove it. He missed one earlier in the game because he tried to pull it.

What's the use of getting to balls that Rich doesn't if you are going to throw them away? Rich is a serviceable Major League player. He's not embarassing himself out there. EE is embrassing himself with his fielding. It will not always be that way. EE's footwork is SUBSTANTIALLY better than last year. He'll get the rest of it worked out soon that his throws will be there too.

[killuminati35]

As an out of market fan, I don't get to see a many games so I'm not sure what kind of range EE has so that might be a good point. But, you can never say that a 1st basemen SHOULD pick a bad throw. A bad throw is a bad throw. Period.

Again, EE has only played in 62 games. Again, can you even imagine the amount of errors and runs he would have cost us playing in an additional 40 games? EE might be a good young hitter, but his bat isn't that good to make up for that many errors.

Yes, he may be a better hitter than RA, but it is not like RA is hitting .210. He is holding his own quite well.

If the Reds were out of the playoff race then EE should be playing everyday and working out his defensive problems. But, we are in a playoff hunt and with Royce over at SS we need all the defensive help we can get.

Also, yes EE had a big hit tonight, but RA has had his fair share of big hits.

[OUReds]

This has been answered, intelligently, tons of times, but hey, everyone loves the RA vs EE debate, so once more into the breach!

First, we have to narrow the situation a bit. Versus left-handers, such as today, RA is usually playing 1st base in place of Hatteberg. Rich needs to play against left handers. He is destroying them this year to the tune of a 1.165 OPS. if you want to occasionally play Rich at 3rd base against lefties, then great, but in general Narron has decided to use him at first and EE at 3rd, which, IMHO is exactly what should be done.

When EE is NOT playing is against right-handed pitchers. RA is consistently starting against righties. This is very curious, as RA this year is hitting righties to the tune of .659 OPS. That is somewhere between the career offensive production of Juan Castro and Royce Clayton. This makes RA the worst hitting 3rd baseman in baseball. By a lot. Worse then Aaron Boone.

You might think he would make up for this with stellar glove work, but instead, he plays defence like, well, Rich Aurillia. There are octogenarians with more range. I certainly understand the arguements that RA is the better fielder, but it isn't an open and shut case. Take the error today. There is zero chance RA gets to that ball, so the net outcome with RA out there is exactly the same as with EE.

[Ltlabner]

....everyone loves the RA vs EE debate, so once more into the breach!

Everyone? Not exactly everyone.