Not to harp on you know what trade, but were there some internal problems?

[GOREDSGO32]

Is there something missing here that no media or insiders found out about? Did JimmyB kidnap one of Krivsky's family members or have a racy videotape of him? I was all for a trade like this, but it just becomes more perturbing, not just from Majeski's completely inept pitching but from the other trades we made.

We traded two everyday players, and really, lets be honest - even though Kearns had more K's in his resume than a David Duke Rally - and Felipe Lopez's fielding was pretty bad ... both of these guys were above average everyday players and could get hot and be All-Stars every few years or so, like Lopez was last year.

So far it turns out Majeski has been horribly bad - worse than some of the players we DFA'd, but the revamped bullpen is still MUCH better than it was. But the players that are doing good, what did we give for them?

OK Bray is doing pretty great, but even still - I don't see how you can justify trading an above average - and in a good streak a very good player in either Kearns or Lopez even on a one to one deal for him. Say that you even do make that trade for Bray one to one, for say Kearns for Bray - a rookie reliever (which sounds bad enough) ... try trading Lopez for Royce Clayton and a guy with a 15 ERA or so on your team - and spare minor league parts.

It's not even this that gets me, this trade has been overanalyzed over and over and over again - but the fact what we gave for OTHER guys makes it seem so weird.

For Eddie Guardado, who was stuck in a rut in Seattle, but a proven closer and reliever over his career and has like a 1 ERA with us now - what did we give? I can't even remember. I think it was straight cash, maybe a low level player in the minors.

For Brad Lohse, who was having a bad year for sure in Minnesota and hated it there - we gave up a low level Single A pitcher. He comes here and has a great start for us today and even if he just has his career stats of under a 5 ERA, he would be better than Milton as a starter.

And then for Rheal Cormier - an old guy for sure, no doubt .. but the guy with the BEST ERA of any releiver in the NL, we gave a Triple A starter.

I just don't get it, its been beaten in the ground a million times by now, no doubt .. and I'm sure this is doing even more of it ... but there HAD to be some kind of internal problem we are missing here. We traded much, much less for much, much more proven guys in all our other trades this year - even ones not involving pitchers. It just seems so out of the norm, kinda like bowling a 260 score in three games then bowling a 74. It's just so out there, it doesn't comprehend.

Even then, say Kearns and Lopez had bad clubhouse influence, heck say they even were sleeping with Narron's wife or something - I don't see if you were having an open auction for these players why some big hitter teams wouldn't actively trade some major prospect or solid relievers for them. We've basically gotten out of this deal so far, Bill Bray - a rookie reliever. I think teams in a major playoff hunt like the Yankees or A's or anyone would have paid a lot more if we wanted to drop these guys for some reason.

I just don't understand the rationale under any terms, its made it much harder to understand when we pick up guys like Guardado and Cormier for practically nothing, and who are much more name players than what we got for some major players.

[Falls City Beer]

It's the most mystifying trade I've ever witnessed as a follower of the Reds.

It should get Krivsky fired, IMO.

[GOREDSGO32]

I don't know about fired, because every other deal he's made has been pretty awesome. How long are Lopez and Keanrs under contract for? Was that an issue? I just don't get the deal under any circumstances.

[Matt700wlw]

It should get Krivsky fired, IMO.

Oh, please.

[wheels]

Well, they did free up some serious jack, so if they wanna pony up for some FA's, the money should be readily available.

I think Wayne saw an opportunity to unload some future contract headaches, while making an attempt at shoring up the pen.

I like the idea of what he was trying to do.

Clayton and Majewski, however, are torpedoing the club's chances right now.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

I think if they waited a little longer, they could have gotten more for their money. It seemed to me that the price for bullpen arms went down sufficiently as the deadline drew nearer. At the time that they pulled the trigger on the Kearns/Lopez deal it seemed like a lot of teams were holding out their players for a king's ransom, which it seems Wayne paid. Either way, it's in the past now and we have to live with what we currently have. Even as bad as the trade can look at times(Majewski's struggles amplifying it), I still feel that it has given us a better shot at winning. If you look back and look at some of the player's opinions of the trade at the time(excluding Dunn), most of them thought it was great. I'm assuming there was some kind of a chemistry problem. And if you remember we played great immediately after the trade. Then we simply had a slump, which all teams go through from time to time.
All said, I think we need to stop dwelling on it and continue to look to the future. We have the division within reach right now.

[Kc61]

I said it at the time, and repeat. The two big issues with the trade are:

1. Is Majewski any good? So far, the answer is clearly no.

2. How do we replace FeLo at short. So far, Clayton/Castro have been ok for this year. But the longer term answer is unclear. (If Phillips, who is the second baseman?)

[flyer85]

Bowden used Jedi mind tricks

[reds44]

It should get Krivsky fired, IMO.

[Falls City Beer]

A lot of managers hurt their teams long term with deadline trades; it happens--the push to want to win NOW is very important. But I don't know when a deadline deal has hurt a GM's team in the long term as well as the NOW more than this deal for Maj and stuff. That takes a special kind of dumb to actually make your team WORSE with a deadline deal made to contend. He's basically taken every bit of good he's done in the early going and squandered it with his deadline mess.

[reds44]

A lot of managers hurt their teams long term with deadline trades; it happens--the push to want to win NOW is very important. But I don't know when a deadline deal has hurt a GM's team in the long term as well as the NOW more than this deal for Maj and stuff. That takes a special kind of dumb to actually make your team WORSE with a deadline deal made to contend. He's basically taken every bit of good he's done in the early going and squandered it with his deadline mess.

Ok, but that doesn't mean he should be fired. He hasn't even had a full offseason yet.

[edabbs44]

I don't know about fired, because every other deal he's made has been pretty awesome. How long are Lopez and Keanrs under contract for? Was that an issue? I just don't get the deal under any circumstances.

Not sure about every other...you never know if the Guardado (been awesome since the trade, but this forearm thing is a little scary) and Lohse (Ward was lights out in single A) deals will come back to haunt us.

[flyer85]

Not sure about every other...you never know if the Guardado (been awesome since the trade, but this forearm thing is a little scary) and Lohse (Ward was lights out in single A) deals will come back to haunt us.

The Guardado and Lohse deals were the ones I liked.

[Ltlabner]

For Eddie Guardado, who was stuck in a rut in Seattle, but a proven closer and reliever over his career and has like a 1 ERA with us now - what did we give? I can't even remember. I think it was straight cash, maybe a low level player in the minors.

For Brad Lohse, who was having a bad year for sure in Minnesota and hated it there - we gave up a low level Single A pitcher. He comes here and has a great start for us today and even if he just has his career stats of under a 5 ERA, he would be better than Milton as a starter.

And then for Rheal Cormier - an old guy for sure, no doubt .. but the guy with the BEST ERA of any releiver in the NL, we gave a Triple A starter.

If you are using these trades as proof that we got should have gotten a lot more for Kearns and Lopez take some time to think about what you have written. I love Everyday Eddie (see my avitar) but this was an older fella (read: vet, the worst of all sins a player can commit), who lost his closer role and was having sholder problems. Loshe was a 5th starter type with a high ERA and people flipped out when we got him. Cromier did have a low ERA, but again he is 39 (I think) so not exactly a spring chicken.

I like EE and Cormier, and think Loshe can do well if he is used correctly, but my point is that we gave up very little for these guys because of the negatives (age, ERA, lost closer status, etc) they carried. It's not like we gave up a "low A prospect" and got a 25 year old fireballer with a .089 ERA and 3 out pitches.

There were a few people here who didn't like Majic the minute the trade was announced, but they had stats and reasoning for their opinions. It doesn't help that he's pitched horribly since he's been here. But let me ask this in response, if he came here and pitched very well, would we have all the continued second guessing over the trade? I doubt it.

[Ltlabner]

It's the most mystifying trade I've ever witnessed as a follower of the Reds.

It should get Krivsky fired, IMO.

FCB, please tell me you are kidding.

You think he should be fired?

Please tell us this is a fit of rage because of todays loss and not a reasoned position you are now taking.

Because if it isn't what you are saying is that GM's that make deals who's outcome looks shakey after a month should be fired. If the fans are not happy right away, and love the trade, they should be fired. If the results are not imediatley obvious, they should be fired.