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Thread: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

  1. #1
    Firin Away Jr's Boy's Avatar
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    Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    If we win all four or lose all four it really doesn't matter," he said. "We've still got a month, month and a half to play. So it's not like the season is going to be won or lost here in the next (four) days. Far from it.

    "If we win the next (four), next Friday I don't think any of us are going to pop the champagne. If we lose I don't think any of us will mail it in and say the season is over."

    Words of wisdom from Jerry Narron.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    sounds like he doesnt want to go to the playoffs but wants to take an early vacation instead.:thumbdown, but i suppose its not the end of the world if the Reds tank on this series.
    Last edited by huber14; 08-07-2006 at 11:54 AM.

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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    I don't have a problem with this, because he's right. Winning three out of four (or sweeping) does not in any way seal the division crown and losing three out of four (or getting swept) does not end post season hopes.

    This is a HUGE series, but it's not the end all/be all of this season. The players need to get up for this series, but they are going to have to be very careful about letting back down after the series.
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

  5. #4
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    If the Reds get swept, their season is all but over. But you sure as hell don't want your manager saying that or even hinting at that.

  6. #5
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    I don't really have a problem with that. this ISN'T the season, and like FCB said, you don't want your manager stating that the team's going to mail it in the rest of the way if they get swept.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  7. #6
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    Stay on an even keel is what Jerry is saying. Let's not forget the finish to the 1964 season as recounted by Lonnie Wheeler a couple of years back:

    Column by The Post's Lonnie Wheeler

    Forty years later, Jim O'Toole can still see the whole scene from the on-deck circle at Crosley Field, where he waited to bat in the bottom of the seventh inning.
    It was Friday night, the final weekend of the 1964 season, and the Reds led the Philadelphia Phillies 3-0, ready to reassume first place in one of the greatest pennant races the National League has ever seen. The Phillies, meanwhile, were two days from disappearing deep into some distant woods to blast away their miseries with the hunting rifles they had bought in foolish anticipation of World Series checks.

    The race had been theirs all summer. Jim Bunning had pitched a perfect game on Father's Day. Johnny Callison was looking like a Most Valuable Player. Gene Mauch was making all the right moves as manager. With a dozen games to play, Philadelphia led by 6 ½, leaving the Reds, Cardinals and Giants to jostle for second place.

    Cincinnati and St. Louis, however, were not yet in surrender modes, even in late September. The Cardinals were determined to win the pennant for Bing Devine, the popular general manager who had traded for Lou Brock just before the June 15 deadline but was fired in August, replaced by Bob Howsam. The Reds, meanwhile, wanted dearly to do something special for Fred Hutchinson, the intrepid manager who was overtaken that year by lung cancer and supplanted on Aug. 13 by Dick Sisler, the son of Hall of Famer George Sisler and the former Whiz Kid whose final-day home run had brought the Phillies their memorable pennant in 1950.

    Of the two, the Reds seemed to attack the final weeks with a more inspired vengeance. When the teams met in a Sept. 19 doubleheader at Crosley Field -- where, in Pete Rose's second season, attendance averaged just over 10,000 a game -- Bob Gibson held a 5-0 lead in the opener, only to lose on Frank Robinson's 3-run, ninth-inning homer. The next day, the Reds came back from a 6-0 deficit to beat the Cardinals 9-6 and wrest second place from St. Louis.

    But the Phillies still led by 6 ½ games when Cincinnati moved on to Philadelphia for a three-game series beginning Sept. 21. The home team's pitcher that night was Art Mahaffey of Western Hills High School. The Reds went with spot-starter John Tsitouris. The two toiled scorelessly into the sixth inning, when, with two outs and the great Robinson at bat, Chico ("bench me or trade me") Ruiz had the cockeyed idea to steal home. He made it. The game ended 1-0, and so, effectively, did Philadelphia's season.

    Beginning with that unforgettable night, the Phillies would go on to lose 10 straight games, pulling off the most ignominious collapse in major-league history. Cincinnati almost simultaneously won nine in a row, taking over first place in New York by sweeping a doubleheader with the Mets for the second time in three days.

    When they returned home for their final five games, the Reds were met at the airport by a happy throng of thousands, including Hutchinson, the raging, revered skipper who by then was fearfully thin. The Reds had watched their bearish leader deteriorate over the long summer, which was particularly hard for O'Toole.

    "I had a special feeling for Hutch," the lefty said. "He was the one who really pulled us all together. When he became the manager, he gave me the ball every four days. From the middle of 1959 to the day he died, I was about 86-60.

    "But halfway through the '64 season, he just couldn't do it anymore. One eye sagged down. His boy always wore the number 1 uniform like his dad, and he started limping just like his dad. How Hutch ever got to the airport to congratulate us was unbelievable."

    The Pirates were in town, and on the next two nights, in front of crowds not much bigger than that which had stormed the airport, the Reds were shut out by first Bob Friend and then Bob Veale, who outlasted Jim Maloney in a 1-0, 16-inning struggle. But Cincinnati won the finale, starting the final weekend -- strangely, there was no game scheduled for Saturday -- a half-game behind St. Louis and two ahead of both San Francisco and Philadelphia. It was such a tangle that a four-way tie was conceivable.

    The Reds, though, had grander ideas. "I think everybody felt like we had it done," said Joe Nuxhall. "The Phillies, in all honesty, were just saying, 'Hey, let's get it over with.' ''

    And they played like it; at least for seven innings. O'Toole, the Reds' best pitcher and biggest winner that year, had them totally silenced with only six more outs to get, and as he knelt in the on-deck circle, was hoping his team would pad its three-run lead against Phillies left-hander Chris Short. That was when Short hit Leo Cardenas in the thigh with a slider.

    With his bat still gripped, Cardenas took off, seething, toward the mound, at which point the anger shifted to the Philadelphia side. "That just lit them up," said Nuxhall. "After that, things went haywire for us."

    O'Toole was uneasy about what Cardenas did, but it wasn't until the top of the eighth that his pique was directed squarely at the Cincinnati shortstop, who didn't bother to take ground balls while the club warmed up. Then, with one out, Frank Thomas hit an infield bloop that Cardenas made little attempt to catch.

    "I don't know where he was at," O'Toole said, "but I was so frustrated to see that happen with so much on the line."

    The frustration mounted when Sisler went to the bullpen for Billy McCool, leaving the lefty in to face right-handed rookie slugger Richie Allen. Allen's triple gave the Phillies a 4-3 lead that stood up.

    In the clubhouse after the game, O'Toole had harsh words for Cardenas and shoved him up against a wall. Cardenas responded by pulling an ice pick on the Cincinnati pitcher. The Reds were unraveling.

    In St. Louis, however, the Mets' Alvin Jackson was besting Gibson 1-0. New York won again Saturday, leaving the Reds and Cardinals tied heading into the final game, with the Phillies one back. The Giants had been eliminated Saturday.

    Bunning started Sunday on two days' rest, but Maloney was still worn out from the 11 hard innings he had pitched against Pittsburgh. Sisler went instead with Tsitouris, who was not up to the occasion. The revitalized Phillies were all over Cincinnati, 10-0.

    Even so, a three-way tie remained possible when the Cardinals trailed the Mets 3-2 in the middle innings. But after Gibson -- who hadn't slept after Friday's defeat -- rallied his team with four innings of gutsy, scoreless relief, St. Louis had won the pennant.

    Or the Reds had lost it, perhaps needlessly. "When you wake up the sleeping dog, that's what happens," reflected O'Toole. "It was terrible that we couldn't win."

    It was worse that, on November 12, Hutchinson died at the age of 45. The following year, his number was the first that the Reds retired.

    On that day, much like this one and every final Friday for the past 40 baseball seasons, O'Toole was visited by the melancholy memory of 1964. He feels now what he felt then.

    "We should have won it for Hutch," he said.


    Publication Date: 10-01-2004

  8. #7
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    People read too much into a manager comments to the media. Those comments are filtered down to the point that they are often just PC throw-away lines because it would be inprudent or foolish to say what the manager is really thinking. Especially in personell matters what is said behind closed doors should never be made public so you often get sanitized or obscure versions of what really is going on.

    I don't see anything wrong with what Narron said here because it's right. If we get swept it's not over (infinatley more difficult, yes, but not over). If we sweep them, it doesn't mean the players should start getting their division pennant rings made.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    but Maloney was still worn out from the 11 hard innings he had pitched against Pittsburgh. Sisler went instead with Tsitouris, who was not up to the occasion. The revitalized Phillies were all over Cincinnati, 10-0.
    The Reds pitchers drew straws to see who would get the start, Tsitouris lost.

    O'Toole has said that if Hutch was there they would have won, but his abscence and Sisler's obvious lack of control helped lead to the tumble.
    Last edited by westofyou; 08-07-2006 at 12:11 PM.

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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    Alex Johnson, playing outfield for the Phils made a great play in that game or the Reds would have led by more than 3-0

  11. #10
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    Sounds like he doesn't want tob burn his guys out or press too much. He's right after all. If you win all 4 games, you still have nearly 2 months of ball to play. If you lose all 4 games, you still have nearly 2 months of ball to play. Every game is important, and you need focus in every game until the end of the season, not just in a given 4 game series.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #11
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    JN is just trying not to put too much pressure on the team for this series.

    Best case scenario- we're up a half game after this series.

    Worst case scenario- 7 1/2 out from the Cards; but definitely NOT out of the race.

    My prediction- a split, and the Reds season will be exciting all the way to the wire. Playoffs or not, it's sure been a heck of a lot better than the last 5 seasons have been, right?

  13. #12
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red
    JN is just trying not to put too much pressure on the team for this series.

    Best case scenario- we're up a half game after this series.

    Worst case scenario- 7 1/2 out from the Cards; but definitely NOT out of the race.

    My prediction- a split, and the Reds season will be exciting all the way to the wire. Playoffs or not, it's sure been a heck of a lot better than the last 5 seasons have been, right?
    Very well stated. This will be a heckuva season regardless of how it ends. I like this club's direction.

  14. #13
    GO XAVIER! toledodan's Avatar
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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    my guess is we split this series. i just hope we don't make weaver look like cy young out there tonight. things could snowball real fast.
    there's nothing like bowling a 300 game! 13 now and retired.


    Ricky henderson has a higher OBP than C. patterson and he's retired. C. Trent 6-14-2008

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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red
    Playoffs or not, it's sure been a heck of a lot better than the last 5 seasons have been, right?
    No question.
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

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    Re: Don't think i've heard a manager say this before

    What should Narron say?

    "if we lose all four, we know the season is over."

    or

    "if we win all four we're in."

    Yeah, I'm sure either would go over real big, here.


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