Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 102

Thread: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

  1. #1
    Worth The Wait
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    4,334

    Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Two things going on right now in Cincy and at Redszone:

    1. A pennant race
    2. Debate over how to construct this team

    Unfortunately, it's becoming harder and harder to distinguish #1 from #2 and I think it's clouding much of the Reds fan-nation emotions right now.

    #1 is made possible by the utter mess that is the NL right now. No doubt about that. Any other year, and #1 isn't on the list-- it's only #2.

    But, it IS what is IS. It IS a pennant race. It IS a pennant race in Cincinnati. That sentence hasn't been written on this board in August in a long, long time-- most likely before most had ever heard of Redszone.

    I, for one, am confused.

    One part of me always has the longterm interest of the organization in mind. Our minor league "talent" scares me. Other than Homer, I have little hope. I see that some of our more productive players are older guys having big years. That scares me. I see a rotation that is improved from the nightmare it has been, but still paper thin and in need of at least one more MAJOR addition for this team to really take the next step. I see a GM caught between trying to win now and trying to win down the road as well.

    As many of you know, I was (and remain) in favor of the Washington trade. I am not sold by any means that it was the right thing to do-- but I think it was the right risk to take as long as it is part of a greater plan.

    But today, for the first time in forever, I was juiced about a single game all day long. It reminded me of 1999 in so much as my excitement level for a series. This team isn't nearly as good as our 1999 team and I don't "believe" in this team like I did that one either. So, it's not the same. But it's as close as I've been since then. And I wonder if I should maybe latch on to this as long as I can?

    We're tied for the wild card on August 8th. We're 4.5 games out of the division w/ 6 games over the next week against the team in front of us. Football is a welcome "addition" to the sports landscape for me this year, rather than a welcome eraser of yet another lost baseball season.

    I am still HIGHLY skeptical of this front office, and highly skeptical of this particular team. But my advice to everyone here is to do your best to put those fears/concerns aside, take a look at the standings, and start rooting your tail off. With this organization, who knows when we'll get another chance?

    The gamethread was a comedy of whining and crying tonight. The 13-1 score was certainly a major contributor, but I couldn't help but thinking that the tone seemed "off" for a team in our current situation. Almost seemed a shame. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm not complaining. I'm not telling anyone how to "be a fan." Just making an observation and maybe handing out some friendly advice from a person who knows what it's like to be tortured by their favorite teams.

    Enjoy it folks, because this time last year, there wasn't even a reason to visit the gamethread.
    Last edited by Edskin; 08-08-2006 at 12:31 AM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ky
    Posts
    5,959

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin
    Two things going on right now in Cincy and at Redszone:

    1. A pennant race
    2. Debate over how to construct this team

    Unfortunately, it's becoming harder and harder to distinguish #1 from #2 and I think it's clouding much of the Reds fan-nation emotions right now.

    #1 is made possible by the utter mess that is the NL right now. No doubt about that. Any other year, and #1 isn't on the list-- it's only #2.

    But, it IS what is IS. It IS a pennant race. It IS a pennant race in Cincinnati. That sentence hasn't been written on this board in August in a long, long time-- most likely before most had ever heard of Redszone.

    I, for one, am confused.

    One part of me always has the longterm interest of the organization in mind. Our minor league "talent" scares me. Other than Homer, I have little hope. I see that some of our more productive players are older guys having big years. That scares me. I see a rotation that is improved from the nightmare it has been, but still paper thin and in need of at least one more MAJOR addition for this team to really take the next step. I see a GM caught between trying to win now and trying to win down the road as well.

    As many of you know, I was (and remain) in favor of the Washington trade. I am not sold by any means that it was the right thing to do-- but I think it was the right risk to take as long as it is part of a greater plan.

    But today, for the first time in forever, I was juiced about a single game all day long. It reminded me of 1999 in so much as my excitement level for a series. This team isn't nearly as good as our 1999 team and I don't "believe" in this team like I did that one either. So, it's not the same. But it's as close as I've been since then. And I wonder if I should maybe latch on to this as long as I can?

    We're tied for the wild card on August 8th. We're 4.5 games out of the division w/ 6 games over the next week against the team in front of us. Football is a welcome "addition" to the sports landscape for me this year, rather than a welcome eraser of yet another lost baseball season.

    I am still HIGHLY skeptical of this front office, and highly skeptical of this particular team. But my advice to everyone here is to do your best to put those fears/concerns aside, take a look at the standings, and start rooting your tail off. With this organization, who knows when we'll get another chance?

    The gamethread was a comedy of whining and crying tonight. The 13-1 score was certainly a major contributor, but I couldn't help but thinking that the tone seemed "off" for a team in our current situation. Almost seemed a shame. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm not complaining. I'm not telling anyone how to "be a fan." Just making an observation and maybe handing out some friendly advice from a person who knows what it's like to be tortured by their favorite teams.

    Enjoy it folks, because this time last year, there wasn't even a reason to visit the gamethread.
    The reason why people are so upset is because they see this season crashing and burning before their eyes...hard to "enjoy" that.
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  4. #3
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    25,083

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    I don't see much of anything "muddying" Redszone. I see a bunch of people who got their hopes up only to have them smashed to bits after this trade. It seems like a normal reaction.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 08-08-2006 at 12:53 AM.

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,347

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    We're a mentally fragile fanbase, bottom line. Most of us here have seen the Reds at the top of the sport (1976, 1990) and have been largely frustrated since. I've grown to expect the worst, unfortunately.

  6. #5
    Member CTA513's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    10,719

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Kind of reminds me of this thread:
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49539



    :obrien:

  7. #6
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Rainelle, WV
    Posts
    8,172

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin
    Two things going on right now in Cincy and at Redszone:

    1. A pennant race
    2. Debate over how to construct this team

    Unfortunately, it's becoming harder and harder to distinguish #1 from #2 and I think it's clouding much of the Reds fan-nation emotions right now.

    #1 is made possible by the utter mess that is the NL right now. No doubt about that. Any other year, and #1 isn't on the list-- it's only #2.
    I don't believe we are in a pennant race. We have no chance to ever overtake the Cardinals. They have a fantastic first baseman and a great third baseman. They have swagger. We have Hat and a combination of Aurilia and EdE. No comparison. They have a Cy Young pitcher and a bunch of run machines. We have run machines and Aaron Harang.

    As many of you know, I was (and remain) in favor of the Washington trade. I am not sold by any means that it was the right thing to do-- but I think it was the right risk to take as long as it is part of a greater plan.
    Here we part. I see a man bitten by the false philosophy that middle relief is valuable. Our middle relief was so horrible that the GM felt he had to go get some while forgetting that we had two viable starters. So, he goes out and gets a multitude of relief pitchers, most of which were no better than what we had, and sacrificed a recent All-Star shortstop and a kid who could be replaced by Chris Denorfia (as WayneK said himself). That worked out well, didn't it? In Felipe Lopez' place we got Royce Clayton and the occasional Juan Castro. Talk about risk. Would the Cardinals have made this trade? Not on your life. Stupid is the word.

    But today, for the first time in forever, I was juiced about a single game all day long. It reminded me of 1999 in so much as my excitement level for a series. This team isn't nearly as good as our 1999 team and I don't "believe" in this team like I did that one either. So, it's not the same. But it's as close as I've been since then. And I wonder if I should maybe latch on to this as long as I can?
    I'm with you Ed. Me, too, but in the back of my mind I knew what was going to happen. We have assembled a team of role players. Hatteberg, Aurilia, Freel, and Ross are our answer to Albert, Rollin, and Edmunds. That should tell you something. Two old guys (one who had one good year) and a career minor leaguer who tries so hard he overachieves at the expense of good sense. Yep, that's championship material all right. Yet, I root hard for this team because it is the only team that means anything to me.

    I am still HIGHLY skeptical of this front office, and highly skeptical of this particular team. But my advice to everyone here is to do your best to put those fears/concerns aside, take a look at the standings, and start rooting your tail off. With this organization, who knows when we'll get another chance?
    That's easier said than done, Ed. You just know the end is just around the corner. Of course, we might get lucky and end up with the Wild Card. Then what? Maybe we'll win the LCS and then what? A World Series might be embarrassing, but my guess is that the best we can hope for is the wild card and a return to respectability after a quick series against the Mets. That's what makes this so hard to take. We've been up in the Wild Card so much this season only to crash and burn. We were 2 games up on Saturday night and then we give away a game and get blown out to draw even with everyone. Can we ever believe this team will be consistent enough to win anything?

    The gamethread was a comedy of whining and crying tonight. The 13-1 score was certainly a major contributor, but I couldn't help but thinking that the tone seemed "off" for a team in our current situation. Almost seemed a shame. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm not complaining. I'm not telling anyone how to "be a fan." Just making an observation and maybe handing out some friendly advice from a person who knows what it's like to be tortured by their favorite teams.
    The problem with tonight's game thread was the way we lost this one. Our team looked tired, lethargic and not into it at all. Our starting pitcher simply was the rookie he was. Our players choked, as they usually do against the Cardinals. And then we see who pitches tomorrow and get sick. Even an emasculated Cardinals team has more swagger and confidence than our team who rolled over and died before 34,000 fans and a host of us watching on TV and listening by radio. I nearly cried, then got mad, and banished the game from my TV (which I should have done the first time George Grande, alias Mr. Sunshine, started telling me how great a catcher and center fielder the Cardinals had). Good teams don't implode like this one does and we all know that elimination is just a matter of time. I hate it.

    Enjoy it folks, because this time last year, there wasn't even a reason to visit the gamethread.
    But we did. At least I did. If you're a Reds fan, you have no place else to go. It's in your blood. I'll be 58 in November. If I'm lucky, I've got only about 20 more seasons to hope for a team that is at least respectible. For 7 years now, we haven't been. We have a new regime which seems to value the same things we've seen before. Older cheap players and guys DFA'd from other clubs while ridding ourselves of young talent which just might get better. It seems all too familiar to 2000-2005. Yes, this season has been better, but the Washington trade and the results of that trade has made me see exactly what the future of my loved Reds will be. I hope 20 years is enough time. If I live that long.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
    -Beano Cook

  8. #7
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,280

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    They have a fantastic first baseman and a great third baseman.
    Who both are regular vistors in Will Carroll's weekly injury updates.

  9. #8
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,599

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    It was one game, people.

    One game.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  10. #9
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,687

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    It was one game, people.

    One game.
    But the most important game of the year!

    I was reading USA Sports Weekly yesterday (can't find the article on the net) and they mentioned an interesting stat while speaking of the Card's plight this year.... no team has ever won their division with two 8 game losing streaks in the same season. Of course, where does that leave the Reds?

    The NL right now is a muddled mess. Anything can obviously happen in a short series such as the WS (see Marlins); but if the WS were played right now I'd have a hard time betting against the AL team.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  11. #10
    Worth The Wait
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    4,334

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    FCB-- I'm not buying the "crash and burn" thing this year.

    I certainly can't make the argument that we're "better" since the trade. But I don't think we're much worse either. You make it sound as if we were "on our way" before the trade and then Wayne made the move and derailed us. I'm not buying that. People can try to convince me that this was the wrong longterm move-- I'll listen to that arguement. But you'll never convince me that this trade derailed our chances this year.

  12. #11
    Worth The Wait
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    4,334

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Of course, we might get lucky and end up with the Wild Card
    I keep reading this sentiment on the board and it baffles me a bit.

    I 100% acknowledge the lameness of the NL of this year. No doubt about it.

    However, if the Reds win the wild card, even in a bad year for the league, even if we're very lucky, I can't help but give a lot of credit to the FO, manager, etc....

    Results DO matter you know. If we somehow make the playoffs in the sport where making the playoffs is the most difficult, I'll consider it a pretty major deal for this organization. For 7 years, we haven't sniffed the post-season and in many of those years we've been one of the biggest jokes in MLB. We're not a joke this year. Frustratingly average perhaps, but not a joke.

    I guess my biggest thing is that I distinctly remember where we're coming from, and I like the idea that we're not in that same place this year. Whatever the reason.

  13. #12
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,599

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin
    FCB-- I'm not buying the "crash and burn" thing this year.

    I certainly can't make the argument that we're "better" since the trade. But I don't think we're much worse either. You make it sound as if we were "on our way" before the trade and then Wayne made the move and derailed us.

    I think the trade definitely derailed us. But it derailed us from the express lane to the bottom of the ocean. We were taking on water and sinking like a rock. Has everyone forgotten how putrid the bullpen was?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  14. #13
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,687

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin
    I keep reading this sentiment on the board and it baffles me a bit.

    I 100% acknowledge the lameness of the NL of this year. No doubt about it.

    However, if the Reds win the wild card, even in a bad year for the league, even if we're very lucky, I can't help but give a lot of credit to the FO, manager, etc....

    Results DO matter you know. If we somehow make the playoffs in the sport where making the playoffs is the most difficult, I'll consider it a pretty major deal for this organization. For 7 years, we haven't sniffed the post-season and in many of those years we've been one of the biggest jokes in MLB. We're not a joke this year. Frustratingly average perhaps, but not a joke.

    I guess my biggest thing is that I distinctly remember where we're coming from, and I like the idea that we're not in that same place this year. Whatever the reason.
    Look at the 1973 Mets (82-79).

    I could care less if we "back into" the WC or whatever. Getting the opportunity in a short series where anything can happen is what it's all about.

    I have never in my life seen a forum so "doom and gloom" in my life worrying and wringing their hands over what MIGHT happen or what SHOULD happen, due to the averageness of this team.

    I know I'm probably wrong, but I get the impression that some can't wait for it to happen - that is, this team to regress to where they think it should be - so they can come back and say "See? I told you all so."

    I personally could care less. I'm not gonna let that bother me (never have), and I'm enjoying following/watching this team, with all it's "warts".

    If they end up falling short, then Cie La Vie, this management, in a very short order, has surprised alot of the baseball "experts" in 06 and given us fans alot of hope for the future.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  15. #14
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Making the claim that "the trade" derailed our chances makes the assumption that we were on the way to locking up the division, had a rock-solid team and everything was going hunky-dory. Then that nasty Kriv made a trade that underminded everything. That is some grade A revisionst history right there.

    Of course, we might get lucky and end up with the Wild Card.
    People say this as if it's a bad thing. Like we sinned and got stuck with the WC. Come on. I'd be jumping for joy to get the WC considering where we were just last year. To go from joke of a team to WC winner in one year is pretty darn impressive.

    Of course I want to waltz into the World Series and sweep the thing. But that isn't this year's team. Our team is what it is, "the trade" or not. We need to all start living in reality that this is a decent team that been the recipiant of a horrible NL league and carear years from a number of players.

    But the fact that BC and Kriv have taken a team that was supposed to be in last place and brought them to be fighting for the division IN AUGUST is an acomplishment in itself. But that gets glossed over and dimissed with "we should be XYZ games ahead if they only did it my way". Some people are actually proclaiming that they want DanO back. They have a GM that has advanced the team this far, this fast and they want DanO back?!?!?! Amazing.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 08-08-2006 at 09:17 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  16. #15
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,687

    Re: Two Schools of Thought Muddying Redszone Right Now

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    I think the trade definitely derailed us. But it derailed us from the express lane to the bottom of the ocean. We were taking on water and sinking like a rock. Has everyone forgotten how putrid the bullpen was?
    And has this BP's performance, since the trade, improved? ESPN reported the other day that prior to the trade the Red's BP converted 59% of their save opps. Since the trade - 80%. Indications are that this BP peformance has improved. Not in great leaps and bounds, but it has improved.

    I need some help with Baseball Prospectus. I've had a premium subscription for awhile, yet I'm a novice when it comes to looking up such stats as a team's breakdown of runs per game to compare prior to and after the trade. I want to do so because it has been offered up on here that our offense has suffered direly since the loss of Lopez and Kearns. Has it really... or is that simply some's subjective opinion? What do the stats reveal?
    Last edited by GAC; 08-08-2006 at 09:53 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25