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Thread: Jerry Narron.

  1. #61
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanBrooklyn
    Just so I get this right, fans of the Reds -- a team that has not even competed for the postseason since 1999, a team until recently managed by Dave Miley and Bob Boone -- think that the manager who has their team -- a team, mind you, picked dead last in the NL Central by every publication and pundit -- in the Wild Card lead in mid-August should be fired ASAP?

    I'm all for hyperbole, but anyone honestly think this same exact team with Miley, Boone or some "established" guy like Jim Tracy managing would be int his position?

    Is he perfect? Heck, no. But let's be reasonable.
    Heh. Easy to be an apologist when the Cardinals are 28-31 in the same time period the Reds are 28-33. The NL is simply horrible this year. Apologize all you want, but ten to twelve wins can be put on the head of Jerry Narron this year regardless of whatever else happened.

    His lineups and in-game moves defy description. His management of the pitching staff and bullpen are questionable at best. I can see this team with a lead in the division with most any experienced winning manager in charge. And don't give me Jim Tracy. What in the wide, wide world of sports make anyone think he is the gold standard by which managers should be judged. Look at the "sure bet" Pirates this year and the ullimited money of the Dodgers teams he led the last three years.

    Our guy is cheap and convenient.
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  3. #62
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herd Fan
    What is this, the thread for eighth graders? My goodness people, back up your staements. It gets old hearing "Jerry's the greatest," "Jerry stinks," and "so does your mom." And none of those are backed up with anything by half of the posters on this thread. Geesh. Narron is neither the best or worst manager in the history of baseball. Both sides of this argument need to think a little bit. As for me, I'll flip flop after every game.
    Jerry's winning percentage over his career is .475. Since June 3rd, his winning percentage as Reds manager is .459. He's never managed a winning team. He's our manager for next year. Do the math.

    Not that it makes any difference, BTW. The Jerry love flows.

    Sorry, but a winning record as the Reds manager is a work in progress. Let's look at it at the end of the season. I eat crow better than most and will be glad to do it.
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    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
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  4. #63
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe
    Relief pitchers would have had to have been coming up in the next two spots in order for that move to make sense.
    Well, I'm not sure I agree, but that's ok. If Narron pitches to Howard and he hits the game winning hit, this thread would be dedicated to bashing him for pitching to Howard and giving him the chance to beat us, just like when he decided to pitch to Pujols in St. Louis earlier in the season. How does the saying go? Damned if you do..........???

    I question more why Harang was not allowed to pitch a few more innings. Fact of the matter is though, the decision to walk Howard was not what cost the team the game. Inept hitting when the chances were there and shoddy defense is what lost this game for the Reds.

  5. #64
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo
    Well, I'm not sure I agree, but that's ok. If Narron pitches to Howard and he hits the game winning hit, this thread would be dedicated to bashing him for pitching to Howard and giving him the chance to beat us, just like when he decided to pitch to Pujols in St. Louis earlier in the season. How does the saying go? Damned if you do..........???
    Completely different situation. Putting the winning run on 3rd with 0 outs is VERY different. Plus, Howard has some holes in his swing that we exposed last night that tells me we could have tried to get him to K (second highest in majors behind Dunner). If he gets the game winning hit, someone would have mentioned walking him here, then THEY would be the ones getting bashed. It just doesn't make sense.

  6. #65
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo
    Well, I'm not sure I agree, but that's ok. If Narron pitches to Howard and he hits the game winning hit, this thread would be dedicated to bashing him for pitching to Howard and giving him the chance to beat us, just like when he decided to pitch to Pujols in St. Louis earlier in the season. How does the saying go? Damned if you do..........???

    I question more why Harang was not allowed to pitch a few more innings. Fact of the matter is though, the decision to walk Howard was not what cost the team the game. Inept hitting when the chances were there and shoddy defense is what lost this game for the Reds.

    I think that if Howard gets the game winning hit then this thread would be dedicated to bashing EZ not Narron.

    As for some ppl that say"well this team was suppose to finish last" who cares what the "experst sports writers" pick teams to finish, whens the last time they were right. Jerry is a .500 manager at best, he makes the worst in-game desicions I personally have ever seen. Look at the reds record, two games over, I any normal season we would be 10 gams back from the wildcard, so all this Jerry has done good with this team talk is really pathetic. After given all the extra pieces I feel he actually should be doing BETTER.

  7. #66
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51
    Completely different situation. Putting the winning run on 3rd with 0 outs is VERY different. Plus, Howard has some holes in his swing that we exposed last night that tells me we could have tried to get him to K (second highest in majors behind Dunner). If he gets the game winning hit, someone would have mentioned walking him here, then THEY would be the ones getting bashed. It just doesn't make sense.
    That IBB doesn't make sense because it's nonsensical.

    The Reds desperately needed the potential Out Howard represented. With the game tied in the bottom of the final Inning and 0 Outs, it's acceptable to IBB in the following situations:

    Runner on 2nd
    Runner on 3rd
    Runners on 2nd and 3rd
    Runners on 1st and 3rd

    Narron would have a defense had the last scenario been in play because, in that situation, having an Out at any base is preferable to having no force potential at 3rd. Therefore, sometimes it's ok to suck it up and push a Runner to 2B. But that's an extreme scenario in which the IBB may be preferable situationally because the winning Run is already standing at 3B.

    Basically, the least palatable of all acceptable possibilities would have been far better than Narron's unacceptable decision.

    It appears that Narron walked Howard in order to (in his mind) preserve the possibility for victory. Problem is that he actually dramatically reduced win probability to the point of virtually conceding the ballgame. It's inexcusable for a MLB Manager to not realize that.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  8. #67
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselman44
    I think that if Howard gets the game winning hit then this thread would be dedicated to bashing EZ not Narron.
    I doubt it. There was a lot of Narron bashing when he pitched to Pujols and he hit the walkoff home run in St. Louis, with the main emphasis being you should never pitch to him late in the game when he has a chance to beat you. The opposing argument? You don't walk a guy in that situation and put the winning run in scoring position. Not exactly the same situation, but somewhat similar.

    EZ is still the one who gave up the game winning hit. This managing decision did not cost the Reds the loss.

  9. #68
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51
    Completely different situation. Putting the winning run on 3rd with 0 outs is VERY different.
    It's a similar decision IMO.

    Everyone here is judging the decision based on only looking at the surface. With a relief pitcher up next with only 3 at-bats all season, and Rowand up after him who has hit into 10 double plays this season, it was a sound decision as opposed to giving Howard the chance to beat you with one swing of the bat.

  10. #69
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanatic
    Howard is hitting around .290. So the odds are in Elizardo's favor to get him out.
    Based on how Elizardo has looked his last two appearances, I am not sure this is true. I bet the opponents are hitting well over .500 against him the last two times out and not many of them are Ryan Howard.
    Last edited by MaineRed; 08-12-2006 at 12:36 PM.

  11. #70
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan
    Apologize all you want, but ten to twelve wins can be put on the head of Jerry Narron this year regardless of whatever else happened.
    So the Reds should be somewhere around 70-45 in your opinion?

    I don't even know how to respond, so I won't.

  12. #71
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Narron hasn't had an easy job. Between the 5,000 different relievers he's had at his disposal all season, and the dicey infield situation, he's handled it perfectly. We haven't heard anything out of the clubhouse about anyone being ticked off. Edwin didn't like sitting every day at first, but he didn't make a big deal out of it. That's a sign of a good manager. The guy's in the clubhouse respect his decisions, win or lose.

  13. #72
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMD
    Considering the solid hit to end the game, I think the point is moot.

    Over a vastly drawn in infield, between vastly drawn in outfielders...

    It's still horrible strategy to walk the bases loaded with no outs while being the visiting team. It's even worse strategy to bring the infield that far in when you could have played them at DP depth. There really wasn't anything Narron did right at all last night, which fell directly in line with everything else he's done this season.

    Loving that extension Krivsky gave him....

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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    My question about narron is what was his record before and after the contract extension? I Know Bob C. / Wayne K gave him the extension somewht early in the season right? Seems to me narron's descion making has taking a turn for the worst since the contract extension. But this also makes me wonder what might have a more established manager done in this situation say Lou Pinella or Davey Johnson ?

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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    If Tony LaRussa was managing this team we'd be 25 games above .500.

  16. #75
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    Re: Jerry Narron.

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselman44
    If Tony LaRussa was managing this team we'd be 25 games above .500.
    I really hope that was sarcasm.


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