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Thread: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

  1. #1
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    As if anyone needed more evidence, he provided it tonight.

    Firstly, he PH's for EE in the 8th, ostensibly for defensive reasons.

    Jerry Narron could have a 7 foot King Cobra's fangs 3 inches deep in his right butt cheek and he would call animal control in lieu of an ambulance.

    I don't know when he's going to figure it out but, his late-inning liability is his bullpen - NOT EDWIN ENCARNACION. The chances of EE making a game-changing error in the late innings pale in comparison to the chances of our "newly improved!" bullpen blowing a lead. Thus, with the move, we lose EE's bat (2 HR's tonight, btw) and inherit Castro's. Predictably, the bully blew the lead, and we had 5 innings of extra baseball w/o EE's bat.

    Secondly, why the hell did Narron get Harang warmed up to throw only one inning? It was questionable in the first place to involve him but, if you choose to do so, why pull him as soon as he appears to have it working in favor of EZ who, aside from being VERY undependable as of late, is TOMORROW'S STARTER???? Hell, use Cormier! Keep Harang in for a second inning! What the hell is the justification for that move??

    Lastly...you all knew it was coming.....walking Ryan Howard with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs. Pitcher up next.

    Howard is hitting .293, so we'll round that up to .300. To those of you in Tallahassee, FL, that means he'll get a base hit 3 out of every 10 times he hits. Of course, he is one of the best power hitters in the game, so the chances that he'll hit a HR or double are greater than, say, Ryan Freel, another player who has a similar batting average. The difference in this situation is that a single hurts you just as badly as a HR, as a single would almost assuredly score the runner at 2nd and end the game the same way a 3 run HR would.

    So...to recap, we have runners at 1st and 2nd with no outs as visitors in extras, with Howard at the plate, in a situation in which a single basically creates the same effect as a HR. With the pitcher on deck, seems reasonable to believe that you have a 70% chance of retiring Howard (ok, maybe a 55=60% chance with Lizard pitching) and then getting the pitcher. Instead, Narron throws the odds out the window and IBB Howard, loading the bases with no outs, putting the winning run at third with no outs. That's right - no outs. The chances of a hitter getting a runner home from third with no outs is exponentially higher than the chances of Ryan Howard scoring a base hit.

    I just don't see how anyone cannot reasonably ascertain that we are in the WC Lead today because of a poor NL, some overachieving players, and a couple of fortuitous trades (2 and 3 overlap; see: Arroyo, Bronson) instead of Narron's managing. I daresay he is one of the worst managers in baseball.
    Last edited by TheBigLebowski; 08-12-2006 at 12:25 AM.
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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Nothing can excuse the 14th inning meltdown. I would have done things differently up to the 14th but I could see his reasoning though I may not have agreed.

    However, in the 14th I have no idea why cormier did not pitch. Afterall the inning set up well for him and then there is no explanantion that can suffice for walking Howard with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs. The Phillies still needed a hit but Narron gave them a bunch of new ways to win the game.
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    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    As I said on the game thread, you don't walk the winning run to third as a visitor in extra innings, even if the next batter is Eddie Gaedel. That was just beyond stupid. I'm sorry, but how deep do you have to think to figure out that you are really stacking the odds against you?

  5. #4
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    The game was lost when he brought Bray in to face the right handers. Why did they trade for more bullpen arms if they can't even use lefty/righty matchups? Why not Coffey!

    Also Guardado does not match up well with pesky guys like that Coste apparently is. With his lack of stuff, the longer a guy hangs around up there the more likely he is to make good contact.
    Last edited by LoganBuck; 08-12-2006 at 12:37 AM.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    The apologists will soon follow, so I'd better get in my $0.02 early...

    Narron's management of the pitching staff is criminal. He yanks Lohse early and brings on Weathers, who pitches for 2/3 inning. He follows with Bray, his latest workhorse who is obviously tired and didn't have it tonight for 2/3 inning after allowing three runs. He goes to Coffey for 1/3 inning and immediately (next inning) brings in Eddie to save. all well and good except Eddie is the victim of an error (not two as many have fantasized) which ties it up. From here on it gets bizarre.

    He brings in Mercker for one (probably all he can do) and Franklin for two. He's down to only Cormier among relief pitchers. So he comes back with Harang, his ace, and EZ, his [b]flipping starting pitcher for tomorrow.{/b]

    He walks Ryan to load the bases, puching the winning run to third so he can score on a fly ball (stupidest move of the year).

    Does Tom Hume not have input (sorry, I know he doesn't)? They need to hire a pitching coach who can set Jerry straight.

    I could go on and on, but I will continue to repeat what I said at the extension and even before that when he was appoint to be Dave Miley's replacement.

    We will never be a championship team with Jerry Narron as manager.
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    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Does anyone get the feeling that Narron would be better suited managing a little league game where full roster participation is mandatory?
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe
    As I said on the game thread, you don't walk the winning run to third as a visitor in extra innings, even if the next batter is Eddie Gaedel. That was just beyond stupid. I'm sorry, but how deep do you have to think to figure out that you are really stacking the odds against you?
    He had a small strike zone. He would have walked in the winning run.

  9. #8
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Call me an apologist or just a devil's advocate, but I think every step of the way, there were two unappealing options, one of which might have worked and one might have blown up. I don't agree with a lot of the things Narron does, but he kept the game alive for 14 innings.

    Taking Lohse out? We used to blast Narron for leaving the starter in too long when things started to come undone in the sixth and seventh. You have a new bullpen, Jerry, use it, we used to say. Of course, the bullpen is not as "fixed" as we thought it was, but still. It's possible that leaving Lohse in would have ruined his nice outing and lost the game right there.

    Taking Edwin out? Yeah, I know. But see David "walk-off hero" Ross's bad throw.

    Using Harang for one inning? Somebody in the game thread predicted Harang would be closing, but nobody wants to see him pitch three or four innings in relief. Obviously Narron's plan was to throw each guy in there for one inning and hope the damage (to the chances of winning the game and to the pitchers' readiness for their next games) would be minimal.

    Walking Ryan Howard? Creative, and Narron will be roasted for it, but he went for a sure out and a chance at a double play. In the 14th inning, when your starting pitchers have been pinchhitting and pitching in relief, there just aren't any good answers anymore.

    Not pitching Cormier? That I don't know. Maybe's he hurt. Maybe the ball he was coloring was going to be auctioned off to help sick kids. Maybe he's starting later today.

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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    A few big points to stress.

    1. Bray is a good young reliever who is obviously so overworked that he is ineffective. He is not the everyday set up man. He should pitch two or three times a week. Once he regains his form he can pitch two innings sometimes. But the guy needs some rest. He is going to get hurt if the overuse continues. (Coffey can use some rest too.)

    2. EE is the best righty hitter on the team. He may be the best hitter on the team. His defense has been fine of late. He should not go out for defense in the seventh or eighth inning of close games. (If you want to make a real defensive move late in games, it should involve centerfield.)

    3. RA needs to play shortstop every day against righty pitchers. The team needs both EE and RA in the lineup. The bottom of the order is not producing and the obvious guy who should be added is Aurilia. Phillips should not hit sixth. RA should play short and hit sixth and Phillips and the catcher at the bottom.

    4. Ramirez should not start for awhile. Like Bray he is 23 and he has obviously hit a wall. He probably should be sent down or DLd and rested until Sept 1. I haven't given up on the kid, but it is obvious he has nothing right now.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-12-2006 at 01:17 AM.

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003
    Call me an apologist or just a devil's advocate, but I think every step of the way, there were two unappealing options, one of which might have worked and one might have blown up. I don't agree with a lot of the things Narron does, but he kept the game alive for 14 innings.
    And that's a good thing? I'd rather lose in 9 and not deplete the pitching staff.
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Narron might be good off the field, but his in game decisons are starting to serriously cost this team. He needs to start being accountable for his foolish moves, simply saying I'm not making any excuses, blah blah blah, isn't cutting it anymore. Same Ol', Same Ol'.
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    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51
    He had a small strike zone. He would have walked in the winning run.
    Okay, that was a bad example. I was just trying to think of the worst batter possible.

    All right, then, even if I was the next batter.

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager.

    No kiddin'

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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    What I find amazing is that Narron has a 12 man pitching staff, yet it seems like every day he's shorthanded and/or at least one guy is worn out.

    I think he should've just left Franklin in there until the end came. Franklin is supposed to be the long guy, right? IIRC, Arroyo was warming up too. Seems crazy to burn through all your starting pitchers in a game like that.

    Now he's greatly reduced our chances of winning tommorrow. The Phils got a good look at the Lizard. I expect them to come out hitting, and then the bullpen is going to have another LONG day.

    At this point, I think they ought to just DL Cormier if he has a hip problem and call up a long guy. Even if he sucks, we need a guy to eat innings out of the pen so that Bray and Weathers aren't pitching every day, and then are worn out when we need them to perform. I thought Franklin was going to be that long guy. Sure, we lose Cormier for 15 days if we DL him, but it's not as if he's been gold anyway. Plus, it seems like he can only face 1 or 2 batters at a time.
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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Jerry Narron is a BAD Manager

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski
    As if anyone needed more evidence, he provided it tonight.

    Firstly, he PH's for EE in the 8th, ostensibly for defensive reasons.

    Jerry Narron could have a 7 foot King Cobra's fangs 3 inches deep in his right butt cheek and he would call animal control in lieu of an ambulance.

    I don't know when he's going to figure it out but, his late-inning liability is his bullpen - NOT EDWIN ENCARNACION. The chances of EE making a game-changing error in the late innings pale in comparison to the chances of our "newly improved!" bullpen blowing a lead. Thus, with the move, we lose EE's bat (2 HR's tonight, btw) and inherit Castro's. Predictably, the bully blew the lead, and we had 5 innings of extra baseball w/o EE's bat.
    First - I too didn't like the fact that they took EE out, but do you think EE would have made that excellent grab that Freel did at 3B later in the game that kept the score tied? Maybe, maybe not.

    But putting a better glove in there defensively in the bottom of the 8th with a 2 run lead was not a bad move IMO. Bray blew it.

    Secondly, why the hell did Narron get Harang warmed up to throw only one inning? It was questionable in the first place to involve him but, if you choose to do so, why pull him as soon as he appears to have it working in favor of EZ who, aside from being VERY undependable as of late, is TOMORROW'S STARTER???? Hell, use Cormier! Keep Harang in for a second inning! What the hell is the justification for that move??
    Harang is not scheduled to pitch again till Tuesday. Throwing an inning was not gonna hurt him. It shows how important Narron thought this game was. Besides, both of these teams had used up their bench - which is gonna happen in a 14 inning game inwhich neither team seemed to want to win it. Both sides had to use pitchers to PH.

    Lastly...you all knew it was coming.....walking Ryan Howard with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs. Pitcher up next.
    You'd rather pitch to the guy who is leading the NL in Hrs and RBIs in that situation with the pitcher due up next? They were already in a pinch with two men on - take the bat out of this guy's hand and if anyone is gonna beat you then it's gonna be the pitcher not a Howard. The pitcher came up with bases loaded and that presents greater possibilities/odds (as slim as they were) to get out of the inning. And he did K.

    Yes, the odds were against us in that situation; but I'd sure rather not take those chances vs Howard.

    So...to recap, we have runners at 1st and 2nd with no outs as visitors in extras, with Howard at the plate, in a situation in which a single basically creates the same effect as a HR. With the pitcher on deck, seems reasonable to believe that you have a 70% chance of retiring Howard (ok, maybe a 55=60% chance with Lizard pitching) and then getting the pitcher.
    There's alot of guesswork/subjectiveness right there BL. A 70% chance of geting Howard out? You get the pitcher out (which they did) and then induce a groundball, you have the opp for a DP, force out at home, and getting out of the inning. Once you get that first out, then it opens up greater possibilities. But you gotta get that first out.

    And also remember - Howard is no speedster at 1B. An INF GB and you have an excellent chance of a DP and to get out of that inning.

    I just don't see how anyone cannot reasonably ascertain that we are in the WC Lead today because of a poor NL, some overachieving players, and a couple of fortuitous trades (2 and 3 overlap; see: Arroyo, Bronson) instead of Narron's managing. I daresay he is one of the worst managers in baseball.
    This game was lost because of our two achille's heels.... some bad defense in key situations, poor pitching by Bray, and ALSO...

    Dunn 0 fer 6
    Phillips 0 fer 6
    Freel 1 fer 6
    Griffey 1 fer 5
    Hatteberg 1 fer 5

    And with the exception of Geary and Rick White (both have 3+ ERAs - who would have thunk that of White), 5 of your key players went a combined 3 fer 28 in this game and vs pitchers with ERAs over 5.

    These guys really let us down in very key situations with men on base.

    Both of these managers were pulling out all the stops, because they knew how critical games like this are in August, and throwing everything out there trying to get that winning run across.

    I'll agree with you BL that I probably wouldn't have pulled EE. But other then that, the players on the field and at that plate lost this game, not Narron.
    Last edited by GAC; 08-12-2006 at 06:09 AM.
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