Relievers and closers may at times have to get those 3-6 outs multiple times during a week, which also includes warming up without pitching occasionally. A reliever will also normally throw his absolute best stuff velocity wise because he knows he is only going an inning or so, whereas a starter will pace himself. The stresses are different, not necessarily unequal.Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa
Yes that is a fact. Just ask Belisle!
Cedric 3/24/08It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
What's to say next year's team is going tolook like this year's team? I would assume that there will be quite a number of moves over the offseason. Remember (I say this repeatedly), we're working to win now without sacrificing the future. Patience is the order of the day.
Reds are mostly bereft of trading chips at this point. I really have a hard time seeing that the 2007 Reds will look appreciably different than the 2006 version (other than Bailey showing up at some point in 2007).
Just. But, we don't.
(actually, Coffey looked good yesterday. He had great action on the fastball to LHHers-- looked almost like a hard screwball)
but Bailey would give a very different look out of this bullpen. I highly doubt that it would work, and I wouldn't COUNT on it. But unless there's an option that I'm not seeing, it's worth looking at. I wouldn't let him get clobbered, and I wouldn't give him a key start. Just a bullpen appearance, then another if that goes OK, then another if that's OK too. See where he's at and if he responds to the higher level.
TC,
Have you seen any of the minor league bullpen options the Reds have, and would they fly in the majors? Their stats seem pretty good, but does their talent translate?
Shafer
Coutlangus
Calvin Medlock
Could Josh Hall, who had limited success as a starter in the majors have better success as a reliever? A lot of questions, but thanks in advance!
what the bullpen needs is a pitcher than can miss bats.
I like Medlock and Coutlangus. I know that I have seen Shafer a time or two I just do not remember a lot about him.
Coutlangus at Chattanooga has some nice stuff. I have seen him plow right through guys in the 8th or 9th and then I have seen him have bouts of wildness. If memory serves he's about a strikeout per inning maybe a little more. He's going to need another year or two. Mechanics are a tad inconsistent.
Medlock has Billy Wagner's build. Another strong pitcher that has three quality pitches. He's a little guy at 5'9 or 5'10 but he's a battler. I think he is from Texas. Pitcher's from Texas kick butt. He could pitch in AAA right now. If the Reds were 10 games out I'd bring him up in Sept.
Josh Hall. I think Josh Hall could be every bit as successful as Harang. Harang is tougher mentaly than Hall which is all the difference in the world.
Someone asked about Votto earlier and I forgot to answer. Votto is the real deal as a hitter. He makes adjustments at every level. Pitching as you go higher gets better. More pitches are around the plate, hence, Quality Pitches. You see more strikes as you progress from Low A to AAA and the strikes are crisp, have more movement and simply have a higher degree of "filth".Votto stays strong through the ball. I would really like to see him get 30-40 Major League AB's so that in AAA next year he will have some experience to use when adjusting his swing. This is of course perfect world thinking. 30-40 AB's are not readily available in a Pennant Race.
Cedric 3/24/08It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
i have to agree with ricardo cabesa on this issue. if september 1st comes and there is no homer bailey in the reds bullpen (assuming the reds are still in serious playoff contention) then something is wrong. if homer is going to pitch any innings after september 1st they should be in the majors not AA.
i say this for the following reasons:
1) i think it would be a tremendous boon to turning around the fortunes and the mindset of this organization if the reds should make the playoffs. i dont think im misrepresenting the facts when i say that this franchise has been on the downswing for awhile now. making the playoffs could go a long way in reversing that trend. although there are no guarantees.
2) the reds bullpen needs help. as of right now i dont believe they have anyone in the pen that can come in and get a big strikeout when needed. homer very well may be that guy. he is probably as close to being that guy as there is in this organization. that could prove crucial down the stretch.
3) it is said quite often that homer only has one reliable pitch and thus will not be able to fool major league hitters and pitch successfully. however, 98 mph heat probably trumps that line of thinking. especially facing hitters for the first time and only pitching one inning at the most. when billy wagner pitched for the astros it was usually heat, heat and more heat. he often talked about mixing his slider in more but never really did. in the short haul i would think a 98 mph heater would work just fine.
4) i have read where sticking homer in the bullpen in september will somehow detour his progress as a starting pitcher. how so? pitching in a big league pennant race to me seems far more valuable experience than making a couple more starts down in chattanooga. as far as changing his mindset from starting pitcher to reliever - well that seems to be a reach to me. anyone who has been a starter all his life and then is put it the pen temporarily is not gonna forget what it is like to be a starting pitcher. how many times have you read about a pitcher who is in the pen saying he still thinks of himself or wants to be a starter. (see kyle lohse). you don't start for years and then up and forget how.
just sayin'
This team isn't going to win the world series this year. Hopefully everyone has realized that. Why start Homer's arbitration clock now?? I would rather they shut his arm down at the beginning of September. Then he will be approaching 150 innings for the year. You must remember that Homer only turned 20 a few months ago. Be patient with him.
as long as he is not going to be a super two(and he wouldn't), starting his arb clock means very little at this point unless the Reds expect him to pitch almost all of next season in the minors.
See Ryan, Wagner.
Risk of him getting destroyed due to reliance on his fastball and underdeveloped other pitches. I don't see that is a good step in "player development".
Being in the pen means he'd likely be thrown into pressure situations that he's not ready to handle (See Rameriz, Elizardo) and fails miserably. Additionally, the natural tendency when young, wanting to please and being in a pressure MLB situation is to (1) tense up (2) throw just a little harder. Both are great ways to injure yourself physically.
The guy has shown limited success getting AA hiters out for a short period of time. Why would that translate right into MLB success?
Never say never, my friend!
Anything can happen; using logic, the A's should have killed the Reds back in 1990.
Having found themselves in a pennant race, even if by default, I think the Reds owe it to themselves and their fans to go down, if they do, with all of their guns blazing.
Having said that, I do totally agree with you on Homer. Just not for your reason.
sorry we're boring
non sequitur
Nope...pitcher with great potential that was rushed through the system (at least that is the general concensus). That worked out pretty well for us didn't it?
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