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Thread: In case you are interested...

  1. #46
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark
    Yes. I caught Paul on many occasions. Mostly while he was rehabbing in Norfolk. He was pretty much finished back then. He was "scared" to throw. He kept expecting the pain to come back. I was just talking to Rob Dibble about that a few days ago. Because of the fact that he wouldn't go full out on his pitches he threw poorly. Every year that he has been in the big leagues, except one, he has given up more hits than innings pitched because he is VERY hittable. When he first came on the scene he truly was a phenom. 4 pitches for strikes including a 95+ MPH FB. Hit all of his spots and the disparity in speeds between pitches was very unsettling. I wished I had that kind of talent.

    I saw him throw up close at GAB and he was about the same or worse. Having said all of that.... Paul Wilson is one of the nicest, classiest professionals I know. He's the type of person that most of us aspire to be. He makes Casey look like a punk. That's how good of a guy Paul is.
    TC.. last season, i was watching Paul pitch (look at his last 3 starts before his injury), and he was constantly throwing across his body which will strain your rotater... his left leg was like stiff as he came thru on his pitches.. his mechanics were ALL messed up..I actualy wrote the Reds saying he was a arm injury waiting to happen. and 2 starts later he gets hurt!.. did he always pitch this way? even when he thru 95mph? Also Tom Hume in a interview with the Creeper said he didnt focus on mechanics.. HOW in the WORLD can he be a pitching coach?? This is what has also baffled me about when Milton doesnt finish off his pitches and nobody doesnt question that and later find out he has a knee injury!!.. its obvious if you look at his no-hitter game he pitched.. he was extending to the plate and he hardly ever does that with the reds..i always thought he had a groin problem or a knee problem. He always loooked like he was trying to throw flat instead of finishing off his pitches!!
    if he has a knee problem.. it wont be long before he hurts his arm.. plus if he doesnt extend towards the plate.., every pitch stays up and is very hittable!!.. im not trying to be a no-it-all, its just basic pitching priniciples.. and it bothers me Tom Hume doesnt see this!!!

    anyway i always enjoy your insites as well..

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  3. #47
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04
    TC, thanks for all your insights its nice to actually read about how the game is played for a change then well you know haha. I cant believe Homer is actually consciously throwing a change slow. This truly shows is immaturity to be a ML ready SP. I did that when I started throwing a straight change in HS. Of course I didnt throw 96. Amazingly I still had tendon problems anyways. Now I can firmly agree with all those parents and coaches that told my Dad throwing an excess amount of roundhouse curves at a young age would mess up my shoulder. I had to chuckle when Arroyo said he could throw 125 pitches a game because his breaking stuff allows him to take the strain off his arm. Funny he said that before the AS break.
    I havent seen him throw since Dayton but is he still throwing arrows to the plate? I always thought a guy with the natural gift to throw a baseball at such speed could benefit from throwing two separate fastballs simply with different grips. One that rose and then one that moved away from a right handed hitter. He should throw the changeup preferably circle since it will cut down the speed of the pitch and have better movement. Then mix in a nice drop curve which could be thrown at full speed for a sharp break on the inside corner and/or throw the same curve Daid Wells esque just for good measure. Oh and hed have to get them all over the plate when necessary. Then I think Reds fans would get the ACE they want.

    On a side note, with EZ getting demoted and his recent problems on the mount I beg to ask has he been tipping his pitches? I havent see him pitch on TV being in the dreaded Cleveland area but Id be willing to bet so. Amazing how this happens twice a year it seems and yet the Reds coaching staff doesnt catch onto it until its too late.
    Yes, Homer is still throwing arrows. I'm not sure why he is not throwing a dominant 2 seamer. Probably because they do not have anyone to teach it.

    EZ... I believe he was. Actaully from what I saw and some others had said was that it was his front leg that was giving it away. He would bring up his leg high for a fastball and maybe 3/4 for a breaking ball to get in a position to rotate down quicker. I know that he has fallen in love with that change. That is Javy's fault.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  4. #48
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by Newman4
    TC, I have a few questions regarding Homer that you may be able to help with:

    1. What has happened to his curveball? His draft write up/scouting report says this: "11/5 CB W/ TIGHT ROTATION, SHARP K ZONE BITE WHEN OUT FRONT" and Baseball America graded it a 70 as early as last year and described as a 'plus pitch'. BA also mentioned Homer working on 'refining' his change last year and in another article discuss his 'plus command of all three pitches'. Has he regressed due to his success with his fastball?

    2. Doesn't Homer throw harder than Mathieson on a consistent basis? I have heard Homer compared to A.J. Burnett in terms of velocity with his fastball. Up until recently, I would think Homer would have better control than Mathieson as well, thus better results

    By the way, I agree with you about the slider. If he can't get the curve going this season, then working on a slider in the off season could make all the difference.
    1) When he throws it for a strike IT IS A PLUS pitch. The "When out front" statement tells it all. When behind he's all over with it. You have to consistently repeat your delivery to be a successful Major League pitcher.

    2) Homer throws 2-3 Mph faster on occasion. They both sit at 94-95. That's plenty good in my book. AJ's ball EXPLODES in the zone. Homer's looks like it is on a clothes line. No comparison.

    Thanks for the questions. Really good stuff.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  5. #49
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckWoody
    I'd like to nominate this post for understatement of the year.


    What are the chances of getting Mario Soto to come back to the organization full-time? It seemed like he was really doing a good job teaching that nasty change of his in spring training. I'm not 100% clear on his reasons for leaving Louisville earlier this season...I certainly hope there is no rift between him and the club. Seems like we could attach him to Homer's hip and it would do wonders.
    I am sure Mario will be back. There is no rift. I saw Mario in Louisville when he was the interim guy. He was working with Lizard. I did a game report if you can find it archived. Mario had not seen his family in a month and has several business concerns at home. He really needed to get back. Real shame because he is big league pitching coach material.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  6. #50
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445
    TC.. last season, i was watching Paul pitch (look at his last 3 starts before his injury), and he was constantly throwing across his body which will strain your rotater... his left leg was like stiff as he came thru on his pitches.. his mechanics were ALL messed up..I actualy wrote the Reds saying he was a arm injury waiting to happen. and 2 starts later he gets hurt!.. did he always pitch this way? even when he thru 95mph? Also Tom Hume in a interview with the Creeper said he didnt focus on mechanics.. HOW in the WORLD can he be a pitching coach?? This is what has also baffled me about when Milton doesnt finish off his pitches and nobody doesnt question that and later find out he has a knee injury!!.. its obvious if you look at his no-hitter game he pitched.. he was extending to the plate and he hardly ever does that with the reds..i always thought he had a groin problem or a knee problem. He always loooked like he was trying to throw flat instead of finishing off his pitches!!
    if he has a knee problem.. it wont be long before he hurts his arm.. plus if he doesnt extend towards the plate.., every pitch stays up and is very hittable!!.. im not trying to be a no-it-all, its just basic pitching priniciples.. and it bothers me Tom Hume doesnt see this!!!

    anyway i always enjoy your insites as well..
    Great point and observations. You have to look at it this way. (Took me YEARS to finally believe in this) Paul was already injured. He would not tell anyone so he began to favor different areas of his body forcing his mechanics to go south as he continued to compensate. Your observations are correct, just reverse the cause and effect.

    When I first caught Paul he was lights out. Mark Prior like mechanics. Smooth and sneaky. That was one time. Then the next time I caught him about a year, year and a half later he was toast. He was just afraid to throw. Soto went through that after rotator cuff surgery.

    As far as Hume not saying he doesn't focus on mechanics. Don't take that too far out of context. Big Leaguers for the most part have pretty solid mechanics coming in. What you are searching for is that "feeling" that goes with making a perfect pitch. Anyone who has ever hit or pitched knows what I am talking about. Even Golf. (RFS62 will appreciate this) When you have your mechanics down everything is effortless. That's what a pitching coach is trying to get you back to. Mechanics are not always the answer. 90% it's our head that screws us up. Hume is really sharp with Mechanics. You have to realize that he is getting a lot of guys coming up that have been poorly coached. That is a WHOLE LOT of extra work for a pitching coach. Lee Tunnel has yet to impress me. (Not that he has too)
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  7. #51
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Has Bailey shown any improvement at holding runners on? Has he quickened his move to the plate with a runner on first?
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

  8. #52
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    TeamClark, I listened to the Lookouts game today, and it sounded like he had his curve working pretty good today. He had 3 strikeouts on it and several called looking strikes on it. It still doesnt sound like he is using his change up much, and I have also heard that he seems to slow down his arm speed when he throws it(the change). I was wondering if you had actually seen that, or heard about that or if I had heard bad information on that.

  9. #53
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    It seems as though Homer has kinda lost the "feel" for his change up. Probably due to not having to use it. Being a former pitcher, a change up is a pitch you have to have a feel for. Kinda like guys who have nice touch on their jumpshot in basketball, it's a finesse type thing that you have to work on. Wow, the way he dominated today, the FB/CB combo might just be enough to get him to above average starter status in MLB while working the change in periodically. Anyone go to the game?
    If you ain't first, you're last! - Ricky Bobby

  10. #54
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    TeamClark, I listened to the Lookouts game today, and it sounded like he had his curve working pretty good today. He had 3 strikeouts on it and several called looking strikes on it. It still doesnt sound like he is using his change up much, and I have also heard that he seems to slow down his arm speed when he throws it(the change). I was wondering if you had actually seen that, or heard about that or if I had heard bad information on that.
    Good to know his curve was working. He really needs that changeup to be good in the bigs but he could get by with 98 and a good curve.


    I metnioned in one of my posts above that he is slowing his arm down to throw the change. It's a shame he isn't throwing it as much. You can't work on it if you don't throw it.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  11. #55
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2
    Has Bailey shown any improvement at holding runners on? Has he quickened his move to the plate with a runner on first?

    I don't have his times but the last two times I saw him he only had a couple of runners on. Hard to judge when you are throwing 1 hitters.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  12. #56
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    TC: In a previous post you said "
    You are correct that the Reds do have a lot of "bottom of the barrell" coaches. Not all of them are bad, but most are. Most unqualified LOWEST bidder gets the job.
    "

    As a Reds fan I am pretty confident we will see this change with Mr. C and Special K at the healm.

    Can you sight any specific coaches who are undervalued in their organization that could be a boost to the Reds?
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  13. #57
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan
    TC: In a previous post you said ""

    As a Reds fan I am pretty confident we will see this change with Mr. C and Special K at the healm.

    Can you sight any specific coaches who are undervalued in their organization that could be a boost to the Reds?

    No, I would not care to do that. I hope you could understand why.

    However, I would say that there are a lot of guys who are not in the game who would work out well. I would replace Rick Sweet immediately with Marc Hill, who is home in Missouri. I would then let Rick be a Roving Instructor. I would send Mark Berry back to AA to manage. Mark was previously a Manager of the Year (twice) in the Reds system. Jayhawk is a good manager but not a great TEAM guy. Jayhawk would be a great Catching Instructor. Mark is a good team guy. Sr. needs to be in a Roving Hitting situation. Running around and evaluating the Reds minor leagues is a waste of his knowledge. Those are a few of many changes I would make that I can give details about.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  14. #58
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    i would love to bring up bailey but if he does bad and we send him down it could mess up his confidence

  15. #59
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by JTMONEY
    i would love to bring up bailey but if he does bad and we send him down it could mess up his confidence
    Ahhh, the paranoia that Homer could turn into Brian Reith part deux. I think the argument that you will kill their confidence is extremely overrated, if they are going to "make it" they will have there share of bad starts. Liriano came up last September and had an ERA over 5. This year he is the best pitcher in baseball. All young pitchers take a beating occasionally, the ones that fight through it and learn from their mistakes are successful. The ones that become shellshocked and sulk (Brian Rieth) fade into oblivion.

  16. #60
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: In case you are interested...

    Team Clark,

    It's my observation that perhaps Homer is a victim of his own success. Think about it, why would a kid continue to work on a changeup when he's striking out guys at the Double-A level to the tune of over once per inning, and giving up just one earned run every nine innings?

    It's a very short-sighted way of looking at things, but when you're a kid like Homer, you're probably too naive to understand that big league hitters will rip him apart if he doesn't develop that changeup.

    One clarification - do you think it will take until next September until you feel he's ready or do you think the Reds will wait that long? I will defer to your insight as to whether he's ready next September, but I can't see the Reds waiting that long to get him up there - although I admit Wayne Krivsky does seem dedicated to not rushing the kid.

    Another question - what do you think of Joey Votto and how far away is he? Obviously Scott Hatteberg has him blocked in the immediate future, but could he make the team next spring or is he another half-season or year away?


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