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Thread: Bill Bray

  1. #16
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    Re: Bill Bray

    I think the kid will be a very good pitcher for years to come.

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  3. #17
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Quote Originally Posted by dburke1337
    Indeed, but the original post was talking about how exciting the possibilities for his future are.
    There have been plenty of pitchers with good "stuff" who have flamed out in the Majors. I'll save my excitement for someone like Bailey, or for someone who is actually demonstrating success at the major league level.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  4. #18
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray

    You just never know with pitchers.

    Between arm injuries, flash-in-the pan types, control issues, and head cases, it's just too hard to look into the crystal ball. For example, Standridge would be exceptional, if he could throw strikes. But he can't, so he can't be counted on, yet.

    That's why you can't stockpile too many good ones.

    If I were the GM, the first 6-7 players I'd draft every single year would be pitchers. And that way, if they pan out well, and you don't need that many pitchers, well, you can always trade middle relievers for everyday players!

    OK, sorry that was kind of a shot, and do still like "The Trade." I like Bray, and think he's a keeper.

  5. #19
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    There have been plenty of pitchers with good "stuff" who have flamed out in the Majors. I'll save my excitement for someone like Bailey, or for someone who is actually demonstrating success at the major league level.
    Since we're on the level of speculation....and posing the 'what if' questions....


    'What if' Bailey doesn't turn out like he's supposed to? And what makes him any different than speculating on Bray, who's already at the Major League level?

  6. #20
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray

    It's his rookie campaign,he still has a month and a half to show his stuff. We should have a fairly good idea by then. He should be showing steady improvement by then instead of getting knocked around.
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  7. #21
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainer
    'What if' Bailey doesn't turn out like he's supposed to? And what makes him any different than speculating on Bray, who's already at the Major League level?
    Could Bailey flame out? Of course, for every Johan Santana there are a hundred Ty Howingtons.

    But I put more stock in Bailey because the professional scouts--whose business it is to recognize baseball talent--have projected him to have a higher ceiling than Bray. The difference, as per your question, is that not all prospects are made equal. Bray has the potential to be very good, Bailey has the potential to be outstanding.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  8. #22
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    Could Bailey flame out? Of course, for every Johan Santana there are a hundred Ty Howingtons.

    But I put more stock in Bailey because the professional scouts--whose business it is to recognize baseball talent--have projected him to have a higher ceiling than Bray. The difference, as per your question, is that not all prospects are made equal. Bray has the potential to be very good, Bailey has the potential to be outstanding.
    Brandon Larson had the 'potential' to be outstanding, and look what happened with him!

  9. #23
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Larson could never hit offspeed pitches.

  10. #24
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    Re: Bill Bray

    But Bray doesn't even have a good minor campaign to hang a hat on. I haven't seen him pitch, so maybe his stuff is just that electric, but just can't see a reason to be blindly optimistic about his future success.

  11. #25
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Quote Originally Posted by puca
    I haven't seen him pitch, so maybe his stuff is just that electric,
    Overall it isn't. Still needs better command of his fastball and about one of every three sliders(when he stays on top) is pretty much unhittable because it drops off the table. However, right now the majority of his sliders break more in the horizontal plane. If he ever is able to get 80-90% of those sliders dropping off the table he will have something special.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #26
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    Re: Bill Bray

    I like Bray. Wish his fastball had a little more late movement, and with the right coaching, that may happen. The slider is pretty nasty, and as Ricardo pointed out, staying on top of that pitch is a key for him. Just the slightest turn of the wrist and fingers to the left really makes that pitch go flat.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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  13. #27
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray

    The good thing about Bray is that he hasn't logged many innings in the minor leagues, and as a closer at William and Mary, I doubt that he logged that many innings in his college career. The Reds should really try to put him on an off season arm strengthening program and consider him at some point as a starter.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  14. #28
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainer
    Brandon Larson had the 'potential' to be outstanding, and look what happened with him!
    Sure, you could find thousands like him in the annals of baseball history.

    You asked what the difference was between Bray and Bailey, and I answered you: ceiling.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  15. #29
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    Re: Bill Bray

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    14IP 24H 5BB 11K
    4.40 ERA 1.8 WHIP

    I must be missing something.
    Yes, Bill Bray was the best young MLB arm moved during July. He quickly moved into being maybe the most trusted setup man and his presence alone has helped move others in the pen into better and more appropriate roles.

    That being said, I looked at Bray as the best part of "the trade" going forward as being under Reds control until 2012 and just turning 23 a couple months back. His dividends were to be received somewhat in 2006 but mostly over the next 6 seasons as a key lefty setup man or potential closer on an organization desperately needing a young infusion of pitching talent. (on the cheap too). Obviously the Maj injury situation and ineffectiveness jumbled things on a number of fronts the last few weeks. Bray's minor league K numbers were pretty sick -- I believe he was in the 11-12 K/9 IP range in ~30IP of AAA ball this season.

    He has been OVERUSED in the last 2-3 weeks and it better stop soon or else he may get hurt and this trade is going to look really bad. His arm is young and he hasn't logged many IP in pro balls. He needs to grow in high leverage situations, but not 4-5 times a week. I'd rather see him pitch a couple of key innings twice a week rather than 4-5 appearances with an inning here and there.

    I'd take him over Kearns in a heartbeat. I'm thrilled to have someone like Bray on the Reds staff for the next several years.

  16. #30
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    Re: Bill Bray

    He has been OVERUSED in the last 2-3 weeks and it better stop soon or else he may get hurt and this trade is going to look really bad. His arm is young and he hasn't logged many IP in pro balls. He needs to grow in high leverage situations, but not 4-5 times a week. I'd rather see him pitch a couple of key innings twice a week rather than 4-5 appearances with an inning here and there.
    I think this is going to be the trick for the remainder of the season; how to use the bullpen effectively without burning everyone out. I think we're running many of our pitchers at the maximum and we have to be careful not to burn folks out (physically or mentally).


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