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Thread: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

  1. #1
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    From the same guy who brought you the Curse of the Opening Day Starter and the Curse of the Reds Minor League Player Of The Year Award comes a new curse: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention.

    The Reds were playing great this year. And then Bob and Wayne decided to extend Narrons contract (and Waynes too) and ever since then the Reds have been an average team. Are the two events linked? If this was just a one time thing I would dismiss it as coincidence. But this has happened before.

    If you go back a couple of years you will remember how the Reds got off to a hot start similar to this season. Everybody loved career minor league manager Dave Miley. Even the front office loved him enough to pick up his option/extend his contract. Six of one, half dozen of the other. But injuries, bad pitching and a metamorphasis into Captain Queeg cost Dave Miley his job along with a lousy record.

    But wait, there is more. Bob Boone got off to a hot start one year as well. I am not 100% sure on this but I believe the Reds extended his deal too. There was even talk of his being Manager of the Year. That all went down the drain too and Boone was fired.

    Coincidence? You be the judge.
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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    May just be the Curse of Narrons bullpen and game management
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Chip you may be on to something... I think they should of waited till seasons end to either bring him back or let him go. Sure he doesn't command a contract such as a Dunn, Harang, Junior, or even LaRue for that matter. But 1-2mil (guessing) could of been used better.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Some of you hated, and still hate the Bray/Kearns deal

    I hated, and still hate the Narron extension.

    We win in spite of Jerry Narron...

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    Some of you hated, and still hate the Bray/Kearns deal

    I hated, and still hate the Narron extension.

    We win in spite of Jerry Narron...
    Since I agree, I'd like to do some calculations, but I can't seem to find the date Narron was extended. Anyone know?
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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan
    Since I agree, I'd like to do some calculations, but I can't seem to find the date Narron was extended. Anyone know?
    Never mind. A RedZoner has sent me the information that it was on Jun 2, 2006. At that time, the Reds were 30-24 and they were 5 games behind the Cardinals who stood at 35-19. Since the extension, the Reds are 32-35 (.478 winning percentage which is close to Narron's lifetime record which is .483).

    I once heard some pundit say that the real mark of a manager was his record in one-run games. This year Narron is 13-11 in one run games, but only 1-8 since the extension and most of those in the latter innings.

    We have a manager who has moved back to his average. Just under .500 managing no matter who is in the bullpen (the early 30-24 record was with a horrendous bullpen and now that it's better the record is not) or who in in the lineup.

    The extension was a mistake.
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    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Is Narron making that much money, on the "baseball scale of things? We're not talking Barry Larkin money here.

    That extension may have bought Castellini some good will in the front office, and showed the players that Narron will be around for a while.

    If there's a better option out there, and Narron falls on his face, Cast can always eat the contract.

    I would imagine that Narron's contract has a mitigation clause too. Unlike player contracts, most coaching contracts have this. In other words, if Narron is getting $500K and the Reds fire him, and then he gets a job as a bench coach with the Dodgers for $100K, the Reds only have to pay the difference.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    Is Narron making that much money, on the "baseball scale of things? We're not talking Barry Larkin money here.

    That extension may have bought Castellini some good will in the front office, and showed the players that Narron will be around for a while.

    If there's a better option out there, and Narron falls on his face, Cast can always eat the contract.

    I would imagine that Narron's contract has a mitigation clause too. Unlike player contracts, most coaching contracts have this. In other words, if Narron is getting $500K and the Reds fire him, and then he gets a job as a bench coach with the Dodgers for $100K, the Reds only have to pay the difference.
    I couldn't agree more chili.... good post. If they had no problem swallowing larger player contracts this year when DFAing players, then if needed, they will do the same with Narron's.

    The first half of the season it was the bullpen (and defense) that was killing us. And that has changed how? There has been a slight improvement, but not enough.

    Someone mentioned on the gamethread yesterday that Narron should have put in one of our better relievers instead of Franklin, and I'm still trying to figure out which one because I've watched this whole BP lot take turns blowing games. Flip a coin!

    Narron's contract is not the problem.... it's simply a lack of talent on that field in particular areas that I feel this FO knows about and acknowledges. But there is not too much they can do about it during the heat of the season due to availability, and not too many spectacular trades went down at/by the trading deadline.

    IMO... they are throwing bodies out there to try and hold this thing together and give us a shot.

    The major problems are gonna have to be addressed in the off-season.



    Our problem is still the same it has always been.... mediocre pitching (slightly improved) and defense.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

    The extension was a mistake.
    Yes it was.

    Narron seems to be a very good person. So what? So was Mother Thereasa.

    Neighther one has proven to be a good manager of a winning ball club.


  11. #10
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden
    Yes it was.

    Narron seems to be a very good person. So what? So was Mother Thereasa.

    Neighther one has proven to be a good manager of a winning ball club.

    Yeah, but Jerry Narron is no Mother Theresa either.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan
    We have a manager who has moved back to his average.
    We have quite a few players returning to their averages as well.

    Coincidence???
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  13. #12
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Here's what I think......Narron will be the manger next year. If he doesn't perform to the expectations of Bob Castellini, the contract will be ripped up, even if it's at the All-Star break.

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    Member Reds4Life's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    I’m not a Narron basher, but the contract extension was given way too early. There was no point in it and it wouldn’t have hurt anything to wait. I was almost positive that RCast was going to go after a bigger name guy (possibly Lou) to help convince the fans he’s serious about winning.

    I understand the Krivsky extension, nobody expected anything from the Reds this year and since he was hired so late it was pretty much a write off year. The Narron deal however was a strategic error IMO.
    Pessimists are well informed optimists

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan
    I once heard some pundit say that the real mark of a manager was his record in one-run games. This year Narron is 13-11 in one run games, but only 1-8 since the extension and most of those in the latter innings.
    13-11??? 1-8??? I hate to ruin a good Jerry-bash with FACTS, but...

    * The REDS record in 1-run games this year is 22-13.
    * Since June 2 the REDS are 10-8 in 1-run games.

    Hey... I am sure there are enough Jerry-bashers that will believe any anti-Jerry numbers that are thrown out there (true or not).

    BTW... extension signed on June 2? The REDS did not lose until June 9 once the extension was given. As I see this is some sort of rocket-science (the extension and the correlation to losing)... how do you explain the 7 wins in a row after Jerry signed the extension? Oops!!!!

    Your numbers????
    Last edited by RedFanAlways1966; 08-19-2006 at 10:24 AM.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: The Curse of the Managerial Contract Extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    13-11??? 1-8??? I hate to ruin a good Jerry-bash with FACTS, but...

    * The REDS record in 1-run games this year is 22-13.
    * Since June 2 the REDS are 10-8 in 1-run games.

    Hey... I am sure there are enough Jerry-bashers that will believe any anti-Jerry numbers that are thrown out there (true or not).

    BTW... extension signed on June 2? The REDS did not lose until June 9 once the extension was given. As I see this is some sort of rocket-science (the extension and the correlation to losing)... how do you explain the 7 wins in a row after Jerry signed the extension? Oops!!!!

    Your numbers????
    Well, I must have mis-counted, so I'll go back and "check your math."

    No big deal, I was using statistics and trying to show what the results were after the extension. I only bash Jerry when he does something really stupid, but, of course, some don't see that and that's OK.

    For you math wizards, here are the results since the extension. You can do the math. Apparently I'm not very good.

    Code:
    6/2/2006 HARANG @ HOUSTON RODRIGUEZ 14-3 W -115 9.5 un O 
    6/3/2006 ARROYO @ HOUSTON PETTITTE 7-5 W -110 9 un O 
    6/4/2006 RAMIREZ @ HOUSTON NIEVE 6-4 W -105 10 un P 
    6/5/2006 CLAUSSEN @ ST LOUIS SUPPAN 8-7 W 110 9.5 un O 
    6/6/2006 MILTON @ ST LOUIS CARPENTER 7-0 W 160 8.5 ov U 
    6/7/2006 HARANG @ ST LOUIS PONSON 7-4 W -110 9 ov O 
    6/8/2006 ARROYO CHICAGO CUBS RUSCH 7-1 W -220 9.5 ev U 
    6/9/2006 RAMIREZ CHICAGO CUBS MADDUX 5-6 L -150 10 un O 
    6/10/2006 CLAUSSEN CHICAGO CUBS ZAMBRANO 2-4 L +110 9.5 un U 
    6/11/2006 MILTON CHICAGO CUBS MARMOL 3-9 L -180 9.5 ov O 
    6/12/2006 HARANG MILWAUKEE JACKSON 5-6 L -190 10 ev O 
    6/13/2006 ARROYO MILWAUKEE DAVIS 4-6 L -175 9.5 ev O 
    6/14/2006 RAMIREZ MILWAUKEE VILLANUEVA 3-0 W -160 11 ev U 
    6/16/2006 CLAUSSEN CHI WHITE SOX GARCIA 4-12 L +100 10.5 ev O 
    6/17/2006 MILTON CHI WHITE SOX CONTRERAS 6-8 L +125 9 ov O 
    6/18/2006 HARANG CHI WHITE SOX GARLAND 1-8 L -125 10 ov U 
    6/19/2006 ARROYO @ NY METS HERNANDEZ 4-2 W 115 9 ev U 
    6/20/2006 RAMIREZ @ NY METS TRACHSEL 2-9 L 125 9.5 ev O 
    6/21/2006 MAYS @ NY METS SOLER 6-5 W 190 10 ev O 
    6/22/2006 MILTON @ NY METS MARTINEZ 2-6 L 220 8 un P 
    6/23/2006 HARANG @ CLEVELAND WESTBROOK 3-0 W 125 9.5 ov U 
    6/24/2006 ARROYO @ CLEVELAND BYRD 0-4 L 100 9.5 ev U 
    6/25/2006 RAMIREZ @ CLEVELAND SOWERS 4-2 W 125 10 ov U 
    6/27/2006 MILTON KANSAS CITY WOOD 8-9 L -210 10 ov O 
    6/28/2006 HARANG KANSAS CITY ELARTON 7-2 W -235 9.5 ov U 
    6/29/2006 ARROYO KANSAS CITY KEPPEL 6-5 W -270 9.5 un O 
    6/30/2006 RAMIREZ CLEVELAND BYRD 9-8 W -115 9.5 ov O 
    7/1/2006 MAYS CLEVELAND LEE 7-12 L +135 10.5 ov O 
    7/2/2006 MILTON CLEVELAND SABATHIA 3-6 L +130 10 un U 
    7/3/2006 HARANG @ MILWAUKEE BUSH 7-8 L -110 9 ov O 
    7/4/2006 ARROYO @ MILWAUKEE DAVIS 2-5 L -125 9 ov U 
    7/5/2006 RAMIREZ @ MILWAUKEE VILLANUEVA 5-6 L -105 9.5 ov O 
    7/6/2006 MAYS @ ATLANTA HUDSON 7-8 L 185 10 ov O 
    7/7/2006 MILTON @ ATLANTA RAMIREZ 10-5 W 130 10 un O 
    7/8/2006 HARANG @ ATLANTA SMOLTZ 1-4 L 120 8.5 ev U 
    7/9/2006 ARROYO @ ATLANTA THOMSON 3-8 L -125 9.5 ov O 
    7/13/2006 MILTON COLORADO FRANCIS 9-7 W -110 10 un O 
    7/14/2006 HARANG COLORADO JENNINGS 3-1 W -130 9 ov U 
    7/15/2006 ARROYO COLORADO COOK 3-2 W -145 9.5 un U 
    7/16/2006 RAMIREZ COLORADO FOGG 6-4 W -135 10 ov P 
    7/18/2006 MILTON NY METS PELFREY 3-8 L +110 10.5 ov O 
    7/19/2006 HARANG NY METS TRACHSEL 7-4 W -110 10 ev O 
    7/20/2006 ARROYO NY METS GLAVINE 2-4 L -105 9 ev U 
    7/21/2006 RAMIREZ MILWAUKEE CAPUANO 6-5 W +100 9.5 un O 
    7/22/2006 MAYS MILWAUKEE BUSH 8-7 W +120 10.5 un O 
    7/23/2006 MILTON MILWAUKEE OHKA 1-4 L -120 10.5 un U 
    7/25/2006 HARANG @ HOUSTON CLEMENS 2-0 W 120 8 un U 
    7/26/2006 ARROYO @ HOUSTON PETTITTE 5-8 L -105 8.5 ov O 
    7/27/2006 RAMIREZ @ HOUSTON BUCHHOLZ 8-4 W 105 9.5 ev O 
    7/28/2006 MILTON @ MILWAUKEE OHKA 4-3 W 105 9.5 ov U 
    7/29/2006 GERMANO @ MILWAUKEE DAVIS 3-6 L 135 10 un U 
    7/30/2006 HARANG @ MILWAUKEE SHEETS 3-4 L 110 8.5 un U 
    8/1/2006 ARROYO LA DODGERS SELE 4-10 L -160 10 un O 
    8/2/2006 RAMIREZ LA DODGERS PENNY 3-5 L -105 9.5 ev U 
    8/3/2006 MILTON LA DODGERS MADDUX 0-3 L -110 10 un U 
    8/4/2006 HARANG ATLANTA JAMES 5-4 W -135 9.5 un U 
    8/5/2006 ARROYO ATLANTA SHIELL 8-6 W -160 10 ev O 
    8/6/2006 LOHSE ATLANTA SMOLTZ 4-6 L +140 9.5 ev O 
    8/7/2006 RAMIREZ ST LOUIS WEAVER 1-13 L -110 10.5 ev O 
    8/8/2006 MILTON ST LOUIS MARQUIS 10-3 W +105 10.5 ov O 
    8/9/2006 HARANG ST LOUIS CARPENTER 8-7 W +115 9 un O 
    8/10/2006 ARROYO ST LOUIS REYES 1-6 L -110 9.5 ov U 
    8/11/2006 LOHSE @ PHILADELPHIA LIEBER 5-6 L 140 10.5 un O 
    8/12/2006 RAMIREZ @ PHILADELPHIA MATHIESON 9-7 W 140 10.5 ov O 
    8/13/2006 MILTON @ PHILADELPHIA MYERS 7-5 W 160 10 un O 
    8/15/2006 HARANG @ ST LOUIS CARPENTER 0-5 L 155 8.5 ev U 
    8/16/2006 ARROYO @ ST LOUIS REYES 7-2 W 125 9 ev P 
    8/17/2006 LOHSE @ ST LOUIS WEAVER 1-2 L 115 10.5 un U 
    8/18/2006 MICHALAK PITTSBURGH SNELL 3-7 L -120 9.5 ov O
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