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View Poll Results: How do you value "experience" ?

Voters
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  • It's everything, the clubhouse has to have been "through the wars"

    1 3.03%
  • Very valuable; it outweights a small decrease in peformance

    16 48.48%
  • Young studs are better, I live live with the mistakes of youth

    14 42.42%
  • Anybody over 30 should be banned by MLB.

    2 6.06%
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Thread: Experience

  1. #16
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Experience

    I think experience is great. But I feel some managers like Narron use it as a crutch. Narron is nowhere near the biggest offender since he actually had the good sense to stop playing Womack after about a week into the season and he played EE about every day before he got injured. But as smart as some of these baseball people think they are, they will go with the scrappy or crafty vet over a younger player because of the experience factor. Even if the veteran has nothing in the tank. They always fall back on the tired cliches about Playing the Game the Right Way and Knowing How To Win. The sportswriters love writing that stuff because the fans eat that stuff up with a spoon. They figure the team has a better chance with the veteran in there than with the kid. The problem is the vet may make the routine plays but may not make the great plays the kid does. John Wooden once said that he didn't care about turnovers because usually the players who made turnovers made the plays too.
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  3. #17
    REDSBROWNSBUCKEYES
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    Re: Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Cicero
    Exactly. Talent takes time and work to develop. I am not against bringing up some young guns, but temper it with experienced players.

    Who would you trust more in a key at-bat, Denorfia or Hatteburg?
    This is way outa subject here, but I had forgot about it and this just reminded me of it. There are alot of us( yes im including myself) who feel deno is going to be something special for the reds, but do his peers feel the same way. When we were playing the mets a while back, right after the lop, AK trade, did anyone else catch the discussion between Carlos Delgado and Hatcher at first base. CD" Whose gonna play right for you guys now". BH "Denorfia" CD "WHO" BH" Denorfia" BH" Denorfia does a good job in right" CD " Blank stare". End of conversation. Whats that all about.

  4. #18
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    Re: Experience

    I think in baseball, experience, especially playoff experience is the most over rated "quasi-tool" in baseball. What type of ML experience do you need to be good if you have numbers like EdE. What about guys who played 3 years of college ball? If you are OPS'ing .900, I don't care if you are 12 years old. As long as you can do things without looking like a moron like run bases and make the right plays, then I am fine.

    I like Aurilia right now, but when he was playing at 3rd, what "experience" factor made him good (I don't think fielding well includes experiene because the glove is a tool). How many times has he made the right play, where Edwin didn't? That is what baffles me. ON THE FIELD, how much does experience play a role? I say very little, with the exception of catchers becuase they are calling the game.

    I think experience with pitchers can be a bad thing. They tend to play in pain, throw fastballs thinking they still have what they once had, and they don't recognize their shortcomings now because they aren't willing to admit to themselves they aren't the same person they once were.

    Another example is because of Griffey's experience and history, we have a bad CF that will refuse to change positions.

  5. #19
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red
    That's because Jim Leyland is a leader, and knows how to deal with great young talent and bring them to the next level.
    Great young talent can make anyone but a moron look good. Leyland didn't fare so well in his last stint, and it had everything to do with talent.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  6. #20
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    Re: Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by OLD RIGHTHANDER
    This is way outa subject here, but I had forgot about it and this just reminded me of it. There are alot of us( yes im including myself) who feel deno is going to be something special for the reds, but do his peers feel the same way. When we were playing the mets a while back, right after the lop, AK trade, did anyone else catch the discussion between Carlos Delgado and Hatcher at first base. CD" Whose gonna play right for you guys now". BH "Denorfia" CD "WHO" BH" Denorfia" BH" Denorfia does a good job in right" CD " Blank stare". End of conversation. Whats that all about.
    I wouldn't expect other players to know who he is. Deno is a low ceiling long time prospect. He doesn't hit 45 HR's, and he isn't someone that other players hear about coming up through the minors.

  7. #21
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC
    Great young talent can make anyone but a moron look good. Leyland didn't fare so well in his last stint, and it had everything to do with talent.
    Good point. For instance, I think Buddy Bell is a better manager than his record reflects. He keeps getting offered bad jobs, and wants to manage, so keeps taking them, and his record continues to suffer for it.

  8. #22
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    Re: Experience

    Like Billy Beane said in Moneyball, "I'll take talent over experiance any day."

  9. #23
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Experience

    I think "experience" has become kind of an unfortunate catch-all word. I do not agree that talent trumps experience every single time. Sometimes very young, exciting, untempered and rough-around-the-edges talent comes up short in big situations precisely because he doesn't know the pressure of big situations. This is true in any sport. But I don't think it's experience that tames that -- I think it's maturity. The two often go hand-in-hand because of natural human progression. But some athletes never learn to handle pressure no matter how many playoff games they have under their belts, and some young talented players handle big moments very well because they're mentally prepared to deal with them.

    I'd feel comfortable throwing Junior into a high-pressure situation. At this point he's no longer the player on the field with the most ability, but he's mature and has shown an ability to rise to the occasion when needed. I'd feel very comfortable throwing Derek Jeter into any situation whatsoever due to his focus and maturity on the field, and I would have felt that way when he was 23 and had a year of major league experience to his name. I'd never feel comfortable putting Barry Bonds into a high-pressure situation, despite his being one of the most talented and experienced players in the game, because he is immature and puts undue pressure on himself for moments of personal glory, and because he sees big moments for what they are, rather than as just another baseball thrown at him, and the magnamity of the situation and potential for a personal shining moment may throw his concentration.

    It's a case-by-case thing, and more dependent on mental qualities and maturity than sheer number of games played in my opinion.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  10. #24
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    I think "experience" has become kind of an unfortunate catch-all word. I do not agree that talent trumps experience every single time. Sometimes very young, exciting, untempered and rough-around-the-edges talent comes up short in big situations precisely because he doesn't know the pressure of big situations. This is true in any sport. But I don't think it's experience that tames that -- I think it's maturity. The two often go hand-in-hand because of natural human progression. But some athletes never learn to handle pressure no matter how many playoff games they have under their belts, and some young talented players handle big moments very well because they're mentally prepared to deal with them.
    This is pretty much where I come down on the issue VP. Experience or maturity is worth something. That intangible value that helps make a play turn easier or deals with the stress of a pressure situation is worth something to me. I like having a few guys like that around especially in the bullpen.

    Youth doesn't always equal tallent. And tallent doesn't always equal production. Maurice Clarrett is tallented (yes, I know it's football). Derrick Turnbow is tallented. Brandon Larsen was tallented. But it really didn't translate into success. Raw, wild and uncontrolled tallent can cost games just as easily as the experienced vet who just can't reach every ball anymore. So to say youth and tallent always trumps experience isn't always true.

    Sometimes I think people confuse youth with tallent and experience with "over the hill". I think having a few guys around who are maybe slightly slower than when they were younger but have that experience to share with the younger guys is an important ingredient to success.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 08-18-2006 at 08:22 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate


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