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Thread: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

  1. #31
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    One would hope we could at least learn from the mistakes we made bringing Wags up too quickly a few years back. No sense in having him come up, do awesome in his first start b/c no one's seen him, then just get shelled as big leaguers see him again. Then we end up putting him in the bullpen, he becomes a whatever middle reliever and we all rehash what "could have been" for the next 5-7 years.

    It's hard to do when we're in the middle of a postseason race for the first time in a while, but patience is the key here. Get that breaking ball over for strikes Homer; once you do, you're gonna be a star for years to come for our boys in Cincy.
    No one expects the butterfly

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  3. #32
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    What's really killing this team is the lack of a true #1 starter.
    Aaron Harang says hi. He's also probably our best since Jose Rijo and he's much more durable. For the first time in at least a decade we've got a staff anchor.

  4. #33
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred
    Aaron Harang says hi. He's also probably our best since Jose Rijo and he's much more durable. For the first time in at least a decade we've got a staff anchor.
    It's scary that he's easily in the top 10 of starters this year.....doing everything a #1 starter is asked to do...right here in front of us.

    Compare him to any starter acquired in the last several years in the majors, and you'll find that better performers are almost non-existant. There are certainly some that have been developed within systems, but acquired? Hardly.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  5. #34
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Guys like M2 and me have been ringing this bell all season.

    It's not the bullpen, stupid.

    It's the starters.
    You jump on WK for throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what will stick.

    You seem to do the same thing with your negativity.

    Then when your right you want to, "keep score."

    If WK does what you say he does, your the WK of posting.

  6. #35
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    Which leads me to ask...

    (1) How many of these are there in Major League Baseball? Are there lots of them?
    (2) Do more than 50% of ML teams have one of these?
    (3) How many are there in the NL Central (Carpenter? Clemens? Oswalt?)?
    (4) How many of them are in small markets?
    (5) How many of them were developed by their current team's minor league system?
    (6) How much salary does one of these get?
    (7) Do you have to trade away starting-8 types to get one?

    The only truly relevant question to be asking is "does our competition have them?" We don't compete against teams from similar market sizes, financial situations or farm systems, so how one acquires a true ace is a question more appropriately asked during the offseason, not now.

    The fact of the matter is many of the teams competing against the Reds certainly DO have #1 starters--Webb, Carpenter, Clemens and Martinez from the NL would all qualify. can the Reds compete against those teams despite lacking a true ace? They certainly could, but it also makes things more difficult. Smaller market teams that are successful--Florida, Minnesota and Oakland, for example--generally have an "ace" pitcher. This isn't the time for the Reds to be crying foul over baseball's economic injustices, or to cry incompetence over their inability to draft and retain a #1 starter through their farm system--they need to figure out how they're going to overcome the disadvantage they're inevitably at when playing an Arizona or New York in a short playoff series.
    Last edited by registerthis; 08-21-2006 at 02:52 PM.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  7. #36
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred
    Aaron Harang says hi. He's also probably our best since Jose Rijo and he's much more durable. For the first time in at least a decade we've got a staff anchor.
    He's good, but he's not Webb, Carpenter, Martinez or Clemens-caliber. Harang would be a #2 on most other playoff-challenging cluubs.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  8. #37
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by captain11
    Homer could help
    ...or Homer could come up and get shelled.

    Any help that Bailey brings this season would be a bonus as far as I'm concerned--I'm certainly not counting on any.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  9. #38
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    What's really killing this team is the lack of a true #1 starter.
    Harang is tied for the league lead in wins right now and is second in K's. Sounds like a #1 starter to me.

  10. #39
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath
    Harang is tied for the league lead in wins right now and is second in K's. Sounds like a #1 starter to me.
    Wins are meaningless. Otherwise, Arroyo would have at least 15 of them now were it not for repeated collapses by the bullpen.

    Harang's been great with K's, but he allows too many baserunners and too many runs to be considered a true #1 starter. Yes, he's the #1 guy on the Reds, but that doesn't make him an ace.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  11. #40
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath
    Harang is tied for the league lead in wins right now and is second in K's. Sounds like a #1 starter to me.
    How bout leading the majors in shutouts and complete games?

    Maybe we'd like him more if he made 12M a year like all the other aces?
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  12. #41
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    I think he found a decent fourth starter in Lohse. Better than decent, actually.

  13. #42
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal
    I think he found a decent fourth starter in Lohse. Better than decent, actually.
    I'm not sold on Lohse yet. He's pitched magnificently his first three starts than us, but Arroyo actually pitched better during stretches of his first two months with the team. I hope Lohse continues doing what he's been doing, but the fact that's he's doing it with a K/9 of 10.24 tell sme that's not going to continue.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  14. #43
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    Re: Failure to find 4th and 5th starters will keep us from playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath
    Harang is tied for the league lead in wins right now and is second in K's. Sounds like a #1 starter to me.
    Frankly, he's no Chris Carpenter or Brandon Webb.

    He's a very high 2 pitcher. Check his OPS Against. (Though, to be fair, if Jerry knew when to remove him from a game, his numbers would be even better).


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