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Thread: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

  1. #1
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Bill Peterson has another fine column in this week's City Beat Magazine.

    http://www.citybeat.com/2006-08-23/sports.shtml

    He correctly notes:

    On Aug. 20, 2005, the Reds were 56-67, 22 games out of first place in the National League Central division and 10th place in the wild card standings, 9 1/2 behind front-running Philadelphia. A year later, despite all the performances deemed insufficient, the Reds lead the NL wild card race.

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    White Castle to the Nile Crash Davis's Avatar
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    I've always liked Bill Peterson's Reds coverage. He's a smart baseball writer.

    But these decisions that seem so obvious to observers are less obvious to a manager who factors in volumes of information of which only he is aware. That's why, in the end, a manager must be judged on his total results. Narron passes.


    For example, the Washington trade isn't looking all that great right now, mostly because of Gary Majewski's sore arm. Narron has papered over the losses by finding a home for Ryan Freel in right field and putting Rich Aurilia's prodution at shortstop.
    Good point.

    Narron kept the Reds afloat, allowed Encarnacion to learn without exposing him to damaging mistakes and threw him back in the fire when he was ready to help. Narron has done what's best for a young player, bringing him along slowly.
    OK, let's not go overboard here. Narron has done a nice job overall, and he deserves more credit for amalgamating the roster...but he's not splitting atoms in the dugout.
    "I fought because I understood and could not bear to understand, that it was my destiny -- unlike that of my father, whose fate it was to hear the roar of the crowd -- to sit in the stands with most men and acclaim others. It was my fate, my destiny, my end, to be a fan."

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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    I went through the other Bill Peterson links, and found the story on the "west coast offense" fascinating.
    I'd heard about the Bill Walsh Cincinnati thing but the other aspects of the story are great.

    http://www.citybeat.com/2006-08-16/sports.shtml
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Going back through the archives, here's another good article, I'll try to trot out for the next attendance thread.....

    http://www.citybeat.com/2006-05-24/sports.shtml
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    But these decisions that seem so obvious to observers are less obvious to a manager who factors in volumes of information of which only he is aware. That's why, in the end, a manager must be judged on his total results. Narron passes.

    For example, the Washington trade isn't looking all that great right now, mostly because of Gary Majewski's sore arm. Narron has papered over the losses by finding a home for Ryan Freel in right field and putting Rich Aurilia's prodution at shortstop.

    Narron kept the Reds afloat, allowed Encarnacion to learn without exposing him to damaging mistakes and threw him back in the fire when he was ready to help. Narron has done what's best for a young player, bringing him along slowly.
    And we don't really know if all of these were Narron's decisions either. Sure they seem like managerial moves but we don't really know to what extent the GM was in his ear saying, "For the love of all that's holy, get EdE's bat off the bench and in the lineup." For example.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed
    And we don't really know if all of these were Narron's decisions either. Sure they seem like managerial moves but we don't really know to what extent the GM was in his ear saying, "For the love of all that's holy, get EdE's bat off the bench and in the lineup." For example.
    I find that very doubtful. From what I've seen from a fan's view, they seem to be very much on the same page. I think that's why both Narron and Krivsky's contracts were extended. I think Bob C. knows he's got a good team with those two. I'm anxious to see what changes are made in the organization in the off season bringing in other coaches up and down in the system, new scouts. I want to see what gems Wayne finds in this winter's Rule V draft, etc.

    I concur with Peterson that the sitting of EE (and others have said this here) has helped him. It took the pressure off and has allowed him to come back and be successful.

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed
    And we don't really know if all of these were Narron's decisions either. Sure they seem like managerial moves but we don't really know to what extent the GM was in his ear saying, "For the love of all that's holy, get EdE's bat off the bench and in the lineup." For example.
    But you can say that about any manager/GM combo. It works the other way around too. Maybe during ST Narron grabbed Wayne by the lapels and said, "For the love of all that is holy, trade for Arroyo!" Bottom line is, the manager gets credit/blame for on field decisions and the GM gets credit/blame for off the field decisions.
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Oh sure, try to steer the thread back onto target after my shameless plugs for my favorite new writer

    I think the overall point Peterson makes is sound, there are a number of factors that go into each decision which we are not privy to, all we can measure is Wins/Losses.
    The team is 66-61, hasn't been under .500 since April and is one game back of the WC.
    This despite being picked to finish last by most everyone, being outscored on the season 649-637, despite a never ending rotation of players, despite the biggest money players providing mediocre seasons(Jr and Milton,.)

    Add it all up and it's hard to believe the team is where it is. The players deserve a lot of credit. The FO deserves a lot of credit.
    Narron deserves at least a little.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    But you can say that about any manager/GM combo. It works the other way around too. Maybe during ST Narron grabbed Wayne by the lapels and said, "For the love of all that is holy, trade for Arroyo!" Bottom line is, the manager gets credit/blame for on field decisions and the GM gets credit/blame for off the field decisions.
    Oh, I realize that. My point is that quotes like "Narron kept the team afloat by..." and "Narron papered over...", etc., while maybe basically correct, are probably oversimplifications of what went on.

    And I agree, redsmetz, that Narron and Krivsky seem to be on the same page but I'm sure they still butt heads every once in a while. Can't always agree - that's boring.
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Quote:
    For example, the Washington trade isn't looking all that great right now, mostly because of Gary Majewski's sore arm. Narron has papered over the losses by finding a home for Ryan Freel in right field and putting Rich Aurilia's prodution at shortstop.
    Narron could have done that when Lopez and Kearns were still with the team.
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Narron could have done that when Lopez and Kearns were still with the team.

    That would have been a hell of a thread.

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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Crash Davis quote:
    OK, let's not go overboard here. Narron has done a nice job overall, and he deserves more credit for amalgamating the roster...but he's not splitting atoms in the dugout.


    Splitting atoms in the dugout,great quote.

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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    That would have gone over well.

    :
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed
    Oh, I realize that. My point is that quotes like "Narron kept the team afloat by..." and "Narron papered over...", etc., while maybe basically correct, are probably oversimplifications of what went on.
    How so? Are you aware of discussions that went on in the Reds front office that the rest of us aren't privy to? Or are you simply speculating that Narron had less to do with those decisions than he is being given credit for? There are no facts that exist that make this an "oversimplification." It could be exactly what went on.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: City Beat Article - Reds Doing Better Than Critics Admit

    I always liked Bill's writing. He should have his own sports blog.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.


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