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Thread: Greatness

  1. #1
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Greatness

    I got to thinking at work tonight, and I was thinking to myself "Ok, the Phillies have Ryan Howard, who can get hot and carry them down the stretch. The Cards have Pujols, and we all know what he can do. What one guy on the Reds team could get hot and have an incredible September, like Vaughn in 1999." And the problem is, I couldn't think of someone. I think that Dunn is too streaky, I love Griffey and I think he'll be productive the rest of the year, but not at a Pujols or Howard level. Encarnacion is too young in my mind right now, although capable. But I wouldn't categorize any of our players as "great." And I think that hurts us. Griffey is still very good, but no longer great, Dunn swings and misses too much to be truly "great" (at the moment anyways), and Encarnacion just might be to young. That's not a good thing for this team. Hopefully someone rises up.

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy
    I got to thinking at work tonight, and I was thinking to myself "Ok, the Phillies have Ryan Howard, who can get hot and carry them down the stretch. The Cards have Pujols, and we all know what he can do. What one guy on the Reds team could get hot and have an incredible September, like Vaughn in 1999." And the problem is, I couldn't think of someone. I think that Dunn is too streaky, I love Griffey and I think he'll be productive the rest of the year, but not at a Pujols or Howard level. Encarnacion is too young in my mind right now, although capable. But I wouldn't categorize any of our players as "great." And I think that hurts us. Griffey is still very good, but no longer great, Dunn swings and misses too much to be truly "great" (at the moment anyways), and Encarnacion just might be to young. That's not a good thing for this team. Hopefully someone rises up.
    I think of the 1990 team and I cant classify any one on that team as a great player who carried them to the World Series. When I think of other examples , Off the top of my head the top players on the World Series Cardinal teams of 1982 and 1985 were Kieth Hernandez, Jack Clark, Willie McGee etc and I wouldnt classify any of those players as great players who carried the team.

    What I hope happens and is several members of the team and not just one player gets hot and carries the team.
    Last edited by George Anderson; 08-27-2006 at 02:17 AM.

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    Member NDRed's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    "Carrying" a team is just a player getting hot at the right time (see: Jackson, Reggie). Aurrilo, EE, KGJ, and Dunn are all CAPABLE of carryimg this team. If they do or do not remains the question.

    Its not out of lack of effort, there are other factors that play into it (luck, timing, etc). Does the average fan remember who is hot is June? No, but they remember that Ross homored in 2 consecutive big games. And if LaRue hits a game-winner in the bottom of the 9th in game 163- well, Ross needs to find a new home.

    Every MLB player is trying to "carry" his team. Some do, most do not.

    BTW- how is Howard capable and not Edwin Encarnacion?

  5. #4
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    Ryan Howard is out of this world. I love Encarnacion, but Howard has 46 home runs. Encarnacion is a run producer, no doubt, but he's not on the level of Howard. I wasn't referring to past years, I'm just stating that the Reds not having one player who can be consistently "great" (I know, a loosely defined term) hurts them when compared to who they're battling with.

  6. #5
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    Edwin has been carrying this the offense for a long time now. Him and Ross are the only reliable guys.

  7. #6
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    I don't dispute that in any way, shape or form. I'm not trying to take anything away from our guys. I'm just simply stating that we don't have anyone on this roster that matches up to Howard or Pujols, or even Beltran of the Mets. A lot of our guys are having good years, but none of them are having truly GREAT years. I'm talking MVP caliber stuff.

  8. #7
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson
    I think of the 1990 team and I cant classify any one on that team as a great player who carried them to the World Series.
    IIRC, Eric Davis, after slumping most of the year, got REALLY hot in Sept (12 HR maybe?) and carried the team at the end of the season.

    That is the one thing this team lacks: a Kirk Gibson type that can will the team into the post season.
    The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)

  9. #8
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan
    IIRC, Eric Davis, after slumping most of the year, got REALLY hot in Sept (12 HR maybe?) and carried the team at the end of the season.

    That is the one thing this team lacks: a Kirk Gibson type that can will the team into the post season.
    Is it not possible for Griff to do that same thing? Marty mentioned this last night, but the Reds have been notorious this year at all cooling off all at the same time and that's deadly. It's the rollercoaster I mentioned before.

    I just glanced at players stats on the Yahoo Fantasy site, and a couple of players BA's are way down in the last month; Adam Dunn's the most (.186). Ross is down at .214 and Freel is at .202

    Aurilia .293
    Hatteberg .271
    Phillips .314
    Encarnacion .326
    Griffey .298

    Three of our starters are really slumping and we need to find a way to kick start them. To Dunn's credit, he's been nearly as productive as the others even while having a lower average.

    What is WAY down is the RBI count.

    This team doesn't need one player to carrying it. It needs to start offensively start clicking on cylinders.

  10. #9
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    Yes, but having one player putting up ridiculous numbers can offset a lack of production from other spots, also. It would be great if we could get the whole offense clicking on cylinders for an extended period of time, but even when a team like the Cards or Phils can't count on that, they can count on Pujols or Howard. Granted, this doesn't always translate to the playoffs. See Ortiz in Boston. And that would be great if Griffey got hot down the stretch, and while I won't say that he's "incapable" of doing it, I will say that it will be tough for him to do so.

  11. #10
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    Something that just occurred to me is the the meat of our order which can do so much damage (Griffey, Encanacion, Dunn) are being pitched to very carefully. Griffey is getting on base, but he's not driving in a lot of runs. Same thing for Dunn.

    I read something yesterday someone posted (I think) where Griffey was talking about changes he's making. Both Chambliss and his dad were telling him to make the pitchers pitch to him. I think if we can force pitchers to work, we can light things up.

  12. #11
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Greatness

    I agree completely. And I think Griffey has been making progress on making pitcher's work. It's important that Ross and Phillips really get going at the bottom of our lineup to make guys pay for being so careful to the other three.


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