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View Poll Results: Which Area Needs the Most Attention ?

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  • Minior League Coaching Staff

    6 12.00%
  • Major League Coaching Staff (Excluding Narron!)

    3 6.00%
  • Amateur Scouting Department

    10 20.00%
  • Pro & Advance Scouting Staff

    23 46.00%
  • Marketing Department

    1 2.00%
  • Public Relations Department

    2 4.00%
  • The Radio Booth

    1 2.00%
  • Other (please explain)

    4 8.00%
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Thread: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

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  1. #1
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    What off-field (ie. non-player related) area do you think deserves THE MOST attention from Krivsky this off-season and will have the most impact on improving the team and franchise in the comming years?

    As always, why do you feal this way?
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 08-29-2006 at 01:45 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  2. #2
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    The Reds always seem so unprepared when they go into big series. Especially as of late. Having two of the worst Advance Scouts in the Major Leagues certainly hasn't helped. They need to spend the money to pay for a scout that scouts themselves as most of the perennial playoff contenders do. Time to get with the program.
    Last edited by Team Clark; 08-29-2006 at 01:57 PM.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  3. #3
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    I'm picking other because several options strike me as being very important, including both scouting options as the coaching staffs. Kudos to the Reds for leaving Vern Ruhle's position technically open and having Humie be the Interim coach. That said, we clearly have to nail that spot and the bullpen coaching position. I don't know about the other ML coaching slots.

    I think we've got to look at the minor league coaching staff. I don't know enough about them, but somehow we're not producing much through the system.

    I think our scouting has to improve as well, all across the board. I'm intrigued by TC's comments about our advance scouts as well as a scout who scouts our own team (I think that's what he said).

    Lots of work to do this off season.

  4. #4
    Plan to be spontaneous Jefferson24's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    I voted other. The area I think needs help is the medical staff (trainers / doctors / conditioning staff) There were many injuries this year and maybe a better medical staff could of prevented some of those.

  5. #5
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    The Reds would do themselves well to hire a wealth of people for both advanced statistical/sabermetric analysis and scouting analysis.

    We need several people capable of advanced statistical and sabermetric analysis, not merely one or two guys who "run numbers" as Castellini was quoted as saying earlier this year. Every team has a small contingent of people who run numbers, but we need people highly advanced in the industry who would carry a substantial viewpoint and be heard throughout the front office. Krivsky is a scouting guy, and it's obvious from some of his roster moves that he isn't as advanced in statistical analysis as he really could be. That's not necessarily a front office weakness if he brings guys onboard to fill that weakness. If he brings in a group of guys to carry out advanced statistical analysis for him and who would do an excellent job of conveying to him and the rest of the scouting/player development department what factors are important and why they are important, then he'll ensure that he's armed with much more quality data in every transaction and potential transaction. Better data allows for better decision making.

    Additionally, we also need to focus on bringing in and maintaining a top notch scouting and player development system for all scouting purposes, ranging from amateur scouting, pro scouting, advance scouting, you name it. The more high quailty scouts we have in the field, again, the better the data and information is that pours into the rest of the front office. Like with statistics, if Krivsky can get better scouting data from the rest of the front office, he can make even better decisions.

    Of course, one key with the above is communication lines must remain open, and folks working in each sector (statistical and scouting) need to excel at pooling their resources, working together and understanding what's important from each end of the spectrum. If you want to build a better team, you need to build a better front office. If you want to build a better front office, you need top notch people working together in both statistical and scouting measures.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 08-29-2006 at 04:11 PM.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  6. #6
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    The Reds would do themselves well to hire a wealth of people for both advanced statistical/sabermetric analysis and scouting analysis.

    We need several people capable of advanced statistical and sabermetric analysis, not merely one or two guys who "run numbers" as Castellini was quoted as saying earlier this year. Every team has a small contingent of people who run numbers, but we need people highly advanced in the industry who would carry a substantial viewpoint and be heard throughout the front office. Krivsky is a scouting guy, and it's obvious from some of his roster moves that he isn't as advanced in statistical analysis as he really could be. That's not necessarily a front office weakness if he brings guys onboard to fill that weakness. If he brings in a group of guys to carry out advanced statistical analysis for him and who would do an excellent job of conveying to him and the rest of the scouting/player development department what factors are important and why they are important, then he'll ensure that he's armed with much more quality data in every transaction and potential transaction. Better data allows for better decision making.

    Additionally, we also need to focus on bringing in and maintaining a top notch scouting and player development system for all scouting purposes, ranging from amateur scouting, pro scouting, advance scouting, you name it. The more high quailty scouts we have in the field, again, the better the data and information is that pours into the rest of the front office. Like with statistics, if Krivsky can get better scouting data from the , he can make even better decisions.

    Of course, one key with the above is communication lines must remain open, and folks working in each sector (statistical and scouting) need to excel at pooling their resources, working together and understanding what's important from each end of the spectrum. If you want to build a better team, you need to build a better front office. If you want to build a better front office, you need top notch people working together in both statistical and scouting measures.
    Very well said, I couldn't agree more.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

  7. #7
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    The Reds would do themselves well to hire a wealth of people for both advanced statistical/sabermetric analysis and scouting analysis.

    We need several people capable of advanced statistical and sabermetric analysis, not merely one or two guys who "run numbers" as Castellini was quoted as saying earlier this year. Every team has a small contingent of people who run numbers, but we need people highly advanced in the industry who would carry a substantial viewpoint and be heard throughout the front office. Krivsky is a scouting guy, and it's obvious from some of his roster moves that he isn't as advanced in statistical analysis as he really could be. That's not necessarily a front office weakness if he brings guys onboard to fill that weakness. If he brings in a group of guys to carry out advanced statistical analysis for him and who would do an excellent job of conveying to him and the rest of the scouting/player development department what factors are important and why they are important, then he'll ensure that he's armed with much more quality data in every transaction and potential transaction. Better data allows for better decision making.

    Additionally, we also need to focus on bringing in and maintaining a top notch scouting and player development system for all scouting purposes, ranging from amateur scouting, pro scouting, advance scouting, you name it. The more high quailty scouts we have in the field, again, the better the data and information is that pours into the rest of the front office. Like with statistics, if Krivsky can get better scouting data from the , he can make even better decisions.

    Of course, one key with the above is communication lines must remain open, and folks working in each sector (statistical and scouting) need to excel at pooling their resources, working together and understanding what's important from each end of the spectrum. If you want to build a better team, you need to build a better front office. If you want to build a better front office, you need top notch people working together in both statistical and scouting measures.
    When will we start to see a mainstream sabermetric approach from all organizations in MLB? There still seems to be an old school vs. new school approach dividing ballclubs.

    Boston, IIRC, keeps Bill James on some sort of retainder as a consultant. Texas' new young pup GM, is a sabr guy. The GM up in Toronto is a sabr guy. Obviously Billy Beane is a sabr guy. DePodesta is a GM, without a head role with a team right now. Is it a GM style/perspective?

    As much as I hate to say this, technology might improve this ballclub, especially in terms of real time player evaluation/analysis. I like how you touched on pooling information, Cyclone. I'd take that one step farther and make sure that all eyes in our organization are looking at the same things at the same time, rather than information being limited due to time or availability. The software and hardware is out there. Rather than Wayne going down to evaluate our AA talent himself, probalby b/c our scouting department sucks and Wayne's aware of this, we could have more reliable means to our GM knowing what cards he has in his deck.

    I'm sure TeamClark could elaborate on the Scouts Edge system, where you can get that information in real time. It just seems that the Reds lack that software, or the people to accurately use it.

  8. #8
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    I'm sure TeamClark could elaborate on the Scouts Edge system, where you can get that information in real time. It just seems that the Reds lack that software, or the people to accurately use it.

    One of the few contributions Brad Kuhlman made to the organization was subscribing to Inside Edge. Their service is phenomenal and highly accurate. The cost per season is about 50K. Someone told me that Brad Ausmus has it in his contract that the Astros have to subscribe to their service. You still need a pair of eyes to evaluate but their reports can give you an idea of what you need to be looking for to begin with.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  9. #9
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark
    One of the few contributions Brad Kuhlman made to the organization was subscribing to Inside Edge. Their service is phenomenal and highly accurate. The cost per season is about 50K. Someone told me that Brad Ausmus has it in his contract that the Astros have to subscribe to their service. You still need a pair of eyes to evaluate but their reports can give you an idea of what you need to be looking for to begin with.

    Inside Edge, Scouts Edge.... I knew it had Edge in the name! All kidding aside, it's actually one of the coolest features I like in whatever the most recent baseball game that came out for Xbox. Gives detailed analysis of players, likes, dislikes, tendencies, where/how to pitch them in certain situations, and even gives defensive analysis on where to position your team during each AB.

    Sounds like we need better sets of eyes to evaluate reports.

  10. #10
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark
    You still need a pair of eyes to evaluate ...
    Stats can certainly tell one a lot, a whole lot, about the "game behind the game." But "trained eyes" will always be a vital part of the scouting and coaching of the game as well, which is why a GM like WK does not just sit at his desk in GAPB, depending on the reports of others, but is spending the last 4 days in Chattanooga, TN.

  11. #11
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    When will we start to see a mainstream sabermetric approach from all organizations in MLB? There still seems to be an old school vs. new school approach dividing ballclubs.

    Boston, IIRC, keeps Bill James on some sort of retainder as a consultant. Texas' new young pup GM, is a sabr guy. The GM up in Toronto is a sabr guy. Obviously Billy Beane is a sabr guy. DePodesta is a GM, without a head role with a team right now. Is it a GM style/perspective?

    As much as I hate to say this, technology might improve this ballclub, especially in terms of real time player evaluation/analysis. I like how you touched on pooling information, Cyclone. I'd take that one step farther and make sure that all eyes in our organization are looking at the same things at the same time, rather than information being limited due to time or availability. The software and hardware is out there. Rather than Wayne going down to evaluate our AA talent himself, probalby b/c our scouting department sucks and Wayne's aware of this, we could have more reliable means to our GM knowing what cards he has in his deck.
    A mainstream approach is still probably 10-20 years away, but it's catching steam. Most of the people involved in sabermetrics are no older than their 40s or so, and a lot of them are only in their 20s and 30s. More and more of the younger generation is sabermetrically savvy, and they'll eventually start to replace old school scouts by default due to age and retirements.

    I think people seem to get confused and automatically resort to sabermetrics and scouting as being "sabermetrics vs. scouting," but that's the wrong approach. The questions people love to ask revolve around "which is better, stats or scouts?" but again that's not really the correct question.

    The correct question is "what does an organization need in its front office to give itself the best chance of success?" IMO, that answer is the best of both sabermetrics and scouting.

    Pooling the resources is key, and the ideal situation is to mesh both exceptional statistical analysis with exceptional scouting analysis. Bill James has been noted as saying he's learned a truckload of baseball knowledge from Red Sox scouts, and on the flip side it wouldn't surprise me at all if some Red Sox scouts have learned a truckload of baseball knowledge from Bill James. The sharing of key knowledge from both statistics and scouting is a crucial philosophy, IMO.

    Bringing in outstanding sabermetric evaluators and scouting evaluators and then applying that same philosophy throughout the organization means your organization is probably going to have an advantage on everybody else ... until they follow your same pattern several years later.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  12. #12
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson24
    I voted other. The area I think needs help is the medical staff (trainers / doctors / conditioning staff) There were many injuries this year and maybe a better medical staff could of prevented some of those.

    Great point! I wish I could amend the poll to include this choice. I think it's definatley an area that needs addressed because there's been too many "hidden" injuries that are allowed to fester, too many light injuries that develop into 60 DL stints and Doc K seems far too optimistic about every case so I'm not sure what his value is to the team.

    I was leaning towards choosing the pro-coaching staff. Chambliss and Hatcher seem like two guys to keep. Bucky Dent....mehhhh. Hume has to go, IMO. Either he's a yes man, too scared to stand up to Jerry or Narron doesn't respect him enough to listen to him. Either way he's not doing our pitching staff any favors. The bullpen coach can hit the road too. How often as a bullpen guy come in the game and gotten destroyed? I know it happens to everbody and he wasn't working with much tallent early in the year, but you'd think that now and again he'd stop a guy who was obviously "off" from going into the game.

    Picking the area I think needs the most attention, I chose the pro/advance scouting option. It just seems we go into most every game blind. We throw it on the shoulders of the batters and pitchers to just figure it out as they go while the other team (apparently) seems to have a pretty thick "book" on us every time. Also, we have a lot of younger players that the league will make adjustments on but we have to have "internal scouting" to pick that out and help them make the proper counter-adjustments.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 08-29-2006 at 03:54 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  13. #13
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner
    . Hume has to go, IMO. Either he's a yes man, too scared to stand up to Jerry or Narron doesn't respect him enough to listen to him. Either way he's not doing our pitching staff any favors. .
    I disagree about Hume. The players have said he's wonderful. He seems like a great guy for bullpen coach. Maybe Hume is a bit over his head as main pitching coach, but he shouldn't be canned just because he was forced to fill in for Ruhl.

    Despite all the moves Wayne has made, the bullpen is still a mess. I don't think you can blame that on Hume though, considering most of these guys have only been here for a month, and a lot of them weren't that talented to begin with (Franklin).
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #14
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I disagree about Hume. The players have said he's wonderful. He seems like a great guy for bullpen coach. Maybe Hume is a bit over his head as main pitching coach, but he shouldn't be canned just because he was forced to fill in for Ruhl.

    Despite all the moves Wayne has made, the bullpen is still a mess. I don't think you can blame that on Hume though, considering most of these guys have only been here for a month, and a lot of them weren't that talented to begin with (Franklin).
    I was commenting more on Humes advice to Narron regarding pitching useage or his inablity to prevent Jerry from making bad pitching choices. For example, when Jerry goes to send Milton out in the 7th inning and the entire world knows Milton is out of gas, where is Hume saying, "Jerry, that's a bad idea"? Either he agrees with these moves, or he can't get Jerry to change his mind about them. Either way he's ineffective.

    He may be great with mechanics so maybe the bullpen is the place for him. But as far as advising Jerry on pitching moves, I don't think he's cutting the mustard.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  15. #15
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Off-Season, Off-Feild Focus

    Mark me down for other

    I honestly wish Miley was back in our organization in the minors. He seemed to help us with player development. I could be completely off base though.

    We REALLY need to address Jerry Narron. We win in spite of him. I think we also need to address bench coaches, that can offset Jerry Narron, if he is to remain our manager.

    Our scouting staff as a whole needs to be revamped. I'm not impressed with anything we've drafted not named Adam Dunn or Austin Kearns. The jury is still out on Homer Bailey. Our advance scouting is lacking, as verified by TC, but it didn't take him to open our eyes to this glaring weakness. Other teams scout us better than we scout ourselves. Great problem to have....

    The marketing department needs to get fans in the seats. The $1 dog nights are cute, but we really need to do something better to get this city more behind our team.

    The PR department is doing a better job getting RedsFest started back up, but the Reds really don't have a community feel, to me. Taxpayers paid for their park, let's give back to the taxpayers. The PR department should reach out to the community.

    Marty will mostly likely be in the booth until he's dead. That's fine. I can deal with him, although he's increasingly becoming the bitter old man in the booth. Should prove interesting to see who joins him in the booth. As for GG and CW, I don't see FSN dumping them anytime soon. Do I wish we had better announcers? Sure. Do I see use getting better announcers? God no.

    Being the oldest franchise in baseball history, you would think we'd get our crap together and know how to run a major league franchise, but this organization seems to always fall short. Hopefully, with new ownership, we will see improvements, but do some of us really have a 3 year patience window to realize any changes?


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