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Thread: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

  1. #376
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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Goodnight, Hollywood Boulevard...goodnight...see ya soo-oon. Goodnight, Hollywood Boulevard. Goodnight. See ya sometime.
    I'm just going to go find a cash machine.

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  3. #377
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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    The thing about the Kearns and Lopez trade is, it killed this year and the future.

    Oh but because they are struggling with the Nationals means the trade wasn't that bad right?
    Actually yea, it does matter.

    Predicting their future performance compared to their cost is somewhat important in baseball, ya know?

    I'm not wanting to relive that trade for the 334343 time here. But Kearns/Lopez play has a huge bearing on deciding if that was right decision or not.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  4. #378
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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    You are being unrealistic.

    Did you realize it would have taken a miracle of biblical proportions for Krivsky to get this pitching staff to league average this season?

    Wanting and reality are two WAY different things.
    I realize that, but why continue to bring in known failures at the expense of adequate (or better) position players ?

    Every day we see more pitchers coming to the Reds and more pitchers who fail in game situations. In the meantime, we don't have an adequate shortstop and a punch and judy right fielder who is the darling of RedsZone and his backup is apparently either an outfielder no one wanted and another who was to be the next superstar who we found out was Clark Kent.

    If the great deal isn't there (and I was neither a fan of Lopez or Kearns),don't force it. Krivsky made great moves with Pena for Arroyo and bringing in Ross and Phillips, but that one deal will always stick in my craw. Looking at the way Magic and Bray have pitched as well as the joke that is Clayton, and I have to wonder how desparate Wayne was. It has crippled the team offensively (and do not compare Rich to Felipe or Freel to Austin--when you consider all phases of the game) and done nothing for our relief pitching.

    Of course, maybe it's just me. I appear to be in the minority on this. But when you score 13 runs in 6 games (2.1 average) and the opposition gets 35 (6 run average roughly), it just might say the offense is poor or the opposition's pitching is very good and our pitching is really bad. The whole purpose of the trades and acquisitions were to improve the pitching. Well that's been a failure. The day before the trade, the Reds stood at 46-44. Today, we are at 67-66. Our record has been 21-22. It has not been a success. At all.

    Accountability must go to someone. Want to draw the names out of a hat?
    Last edited by WVRedsFan; 08-31-2006 at 01:34 AM.
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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    Talent is the difference between 90 and 70 wins. Effort is the difference between 90 and 92 wins.

    Obviously effort is important, but it's not what wins the majority of games.
    Right. The Marlins are two games better than the Braves this year. Go figya.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I realize that, but why continue to bring in known failures at the expense of adequate (or better) position players ?

    Every day we see more pitchers coming to the Reds and more pitchers who fail in game situations. In the meantime, we don't have an adequate shortstop and a punch and judy right fielder who is the darling of RedsZone and his backup is apparently either an outfielder no one wanted and another who was to be the next superstar who we found out was Clark Kent.

    If the great deal isn't there (and I was neither a fan of Lopez or Kearns),don't force it. Krivsky made great moves with Pena for Arroyo and bringing in Ross and Phillips, but that one deal will always stick in my craw. Looking at the way Magic and Bray have pitched as well as the joke that is Clayton, and I have to wonder how desparate Wayne was. It has crippled the team offensively (and do not compare Rich to Felipe or Freel to Austin--when you consider all phases of the game) and done nothing for our relief pitching.

    Of course, maybe it's just me. I appear to be in the minority on this. But when you score 13 runs in 6 games (2.1 average) and the opposition gets 35 (6 run average roughly), it just might say the offense is poor or the opposition's pitching is very good and our pitching is really bad. The whole purpose of the trades and acquisitions were to improve the pitching. Well that's been a failure. The day before the trade, the Reds stood at 30-24. Today, we are at 67-66. Our record has been 37-42. It has not been a success. At all.

    Accountability must go to someone. Want to draw the names out of a hat?
    It's easy to expect perfection though in any move. Did you know that Denorfia would fail? How would Krivsky?

    Did you know that Freel/Hatteberg/and Dunn would tank at the most important time of the year?

    Building a winning baseball team from the scraps of crap DanO gave Wayne was almost impossible. He's not gonna be perfect by any means, but from my view he deserves a standing ovation.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  7. #381
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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Right. The Marlins are two games better than the Braves this year. Go figya.
    The Marlins are in the same league of talent as the Braves. The Braves have a 32 run differential over the Fish which is attributable to many factors. Maybe pure luck, maybe effort. Who knows. I've certainly seen nothing to suggest that the Marlins work any harder than the Braves. Knowing how proud the Braves are, I'm guessing effort isn't their prime concern.
    Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 08-31-2006 at 01:24 AM.

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    The Ryan Adams move was clutch there, Dude.

    From my standpoint, this was a team that excelled in a small sample size. 18-8 in April.

    Since then, they are ten games under .500. That's about where all the reasonable projections put them.

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    I've seen crazier things happen. It's not likely, but with the amount of luck involved in the average game of baseball, it's the 1 sport where you see a 6game losing streak turned into a 6 game winning streak.

    Sure, anything is possible, but we've got Lohse, Arroyo and Milton (on short rest).

    I disagree that luck had anything to do with this losing streak. It's not like we are hitting line drives right at people, and Franklin serving up the meatball last night wasn't bad luck, it was just lack of talent.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    The thing about the Kearns and Lopez trade is, it killed this year and the future.

    Oh but because they are struggling with the Nationals means the trade wasn't that bad right?

    Yep. I liked the Pena trade, but when you subract Pena, Kearns, and Lopez from the offense, the offense is going to feel it. Hat's career year covered for Casey being gone, but that's another possible hole for next year (unless Hat can repeat). Again, I'm not saying Casey is God, but he's one of 4 significant players we lost from last years' offense.

    As much as people like to point out that Kearns and Lopez have struggled since the trade, Freel has OPS 604 in August. He did have a great July, but I don't want to put the effort into figuring out his "since the trade" numbers.
    Clayton has been OPS at 663 since the trade (which is an improvement from his 621 OPS in Wash)

    Not exactly "addition by subtraction".
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    It's easy to expect perfection though in any move. Did you know that Denorfia would fail? How would Krivsky?
    I always felt Deno would at best be a 4th OF. Not bragging, but it was kind of silly to expect Deno to step in and replace Kearns. I know he's a cult hero here, but the guy has never had any power. I saw him play one game in the minors.. small sample size.. but was not impressed at all.

    IMO, it was extremely wishful thinking by Wayne when he said it was "Deno's time".
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I always felt Deno would at best be a 4th OF. Not bragging, but it was kind of silly to expect Deno to step in and replace Kearns. I know he's a cult hero here, but the guy has never had any power. I saw him play one game in the minors.. small sample size.. but was not impressed at all.

    IMO, it was extremely wishful thinking by Wayne when he said it was "Deno's time".
    Maybe you are just batting 1.000 this year, sounds like it. Most other humans have to take risks. With the way our bullpen was going I still think Denorfia replacing Kearns was worth the risk.

    I sure as hell thought Denorfia deserved a shot, and so did many others.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Sure, anything is possible, but we've got Lohse, Arroyo and Milton (on short rest).

    I disagree that luck had anything to do with this losing streak. It's not like we are hitting line drives right at people, and Franklin serving up the meatball last night wasn't bad luck, it was just lack of talent.

    Milton wont be on short rest since there is an off day tomorrow, so it will just be regular bad Milton, instead of extra bad Milton.

    I thought we had particularly bad luck today. The Dodgers made some fluky plays (the ball that was scorched off Maddux and went right to the 3rd baseman) and we hit some balls right on the nose at key times that didn't work out (Hatteberg's DP). Those are just a couple, but we certainly have not had things going our way (the Reds have played very poorly the last 6 games, but as a whole we haven't exactly been blessed with good luck). A reversal of fortunes would do this team wonders.

    For some reason, I'm actually optimistic that we will take at least 2 from the Pads. Call me crazy (because I probably am), but this team hasn't gone down quietly all season. Even in the games the Reds lose, they usually make it interesting at the end.

    And ya Franklin isn't very good, nuff said there.

  14. #388
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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    I made some corrections to my post about the Reds record since the trade. it's not as dramatic, but a losing one, nonetheless. Trying to do these things after 3-4 hours sleep last night after that disappointment and being up so late tonight means you make mistakes, so in trying to figure the since the trade statistics, i gave up.

    As far as I got, though, Lopez is doing well, much much better than Clayton, as I suspected and Kearns is at least producing more runs than Freel. Cincinnatians love Freel because of his effort and blue collar work ethic (and blue collar drinking habits too I've found), but you don't build a team around him as a leadoff hitter. I've said that before to guffaws, so I'll quit there.

    Cedric asked me how I knew Denorfia would tank and that Dunn, Freel and Hat would go into slumps (not to mention Junior). Simple. Looking at the history of these players, Denorfia is 27 and in the minors for a reason, Freel is the world's greatest utility player, Dunn is prone to stretches like this and late in the season he seems to get worse, and Hatteberg was playing way over his head. Couple that with rookie EdE,who can't be expected to carry this team (though he did for awhile), and Wayne gambled and lost. he thought in Magic, Bray, Franklin, Lohse, ED Eddie, Mays, Cormier, and others, he could hold down the other team enough to eck out wins. He forgot our lack of defense and expected Castro to make up for a lot of non-offensive problems. The result? Not good.

    Gang, I'm a glass half full guy. I'll still watch and hope on Friday and the rest of the season, but Krivsky gambled and lost. and like Cedric said, it's better to see that than to watch grass grow under Dan O'Brien's feet waiting for the right time. And once again, maybe I'm missing the big picture here. Truth is, this wasn't going to be our year. It just so happened that everyone else was down and it was a golden opportunity. I keep telling myself that it won't be this way again, and we're missing out, but if the right moves are made, not out of desparation (as I feel the Kearns, Lopez and Wagner for the fluff we got trade was), but out of intelligent determination of talent, we'll be Ok.

    I said that making the Reds Wayne's (s in my signature) was just like DanO and JimBo. That was an emotional statement borne out of frustration. It is not. It resembles it, but not quite. I'm sure the future will be better.

    Mea Culpa.
    Last edited by WVRedsFan; 08-31-2006 at 02:07 AM.
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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Maybe you are just batting 1.000 this year, sounds like it. Most other humans have to take risks. With the way our bullpen was going I still think Denorfia replacing Kearns was worth the risk.

    I sure as hell thought Denorfia deserved a shot, and so did many others.
    I had no problem with the thought process of trading Kearns for help in other areas and giving Freel RF. I think it's good that the Reds at least quickly realized that Deno wasn't the answer.

    I didn't expect Freel to totally flop in August. It's so bad that I think an OF should be on our offseason shopping list. I doubt it will be, but it should be.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Aug. 30th, 2006 CIN v. LAD .. *Fingers Crossed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    Milton wont be on short rest since there is an off day tomorrow, so it will just be regular bad Milton, instead of extra bad Milton.
    You're right, I forgot about the off day.

    I hope we take at least 2 of 3 from the Pads. I'll probably be listening. I'm just depressed now.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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