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Thread: GABP Changes

  1. #46
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by BoydsOfSummer View Post
    Paint Junior green also since they are both immoveable objects in the same general vicinity.

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  3. #47
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: GABP Changes

    I like GABP, it sure as heck beats Riverfront/Cinergy but I am slightly dissapointed because it just doesnt seem to be as nice as other newer stadiums I have been to like Comerica Park and Jacobs Field.I think GABP would look alot nicer had more brick been used on the structure.

    I heard rumors that the costs for Paul Brown stadium over ran and the city had to cut corners on GABP. Any truth to this?

  4. #48
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I heard rumors that the costs for Paul Brown stadium over ran and the city had to cut corners on GABP. Any truth to this?
    Paul Brown Stadium had serious cost overruns. IIRC it somewhere close to twice as expensive as planned.

    Again IIRC the sales tax increase was designed to pay for both stadiums from the same tax increase.

    But I don't know if that meant that the funds for GABP were "used up" by PBS.

    My guess is that because PBS is sorta "space age" looking with zero brick, stainess steel perforated pannels on the sides and loads of white concrete that someone wanted GABP to be roughly simular so they didn't clash. That may be why GABP has zero brick but that is 100% speculation (of course the Natl Underground Railroad Museum is made from all red and light brown squared stones that resemble brick from a distance so it totally clashes with both stadiums. So what do I know).

    And I agree with you, I like GABP but I prefer brick, even if a decortive facade over concrete, over stark white concrete.
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  5. #49
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I heard rumors that the costs for Paul Brown stadium over ran and the city had to cut corners on GABP. Any truth to this?
    The Reds and Bengals both have new riverfront stadiums, paid for by taxpayers through a half-penny increase in the Hamilton County sales tax.

    That's where the similarities between Great American Ball Park and Paul Brown Stadium - and the deals between Hamilton County and Cincinnati's two professional sports teams - end.

    Consider these differences:

    There were no cost overruns for the Reds ballpark, even though the team agreed to pay for them.

    Taxpayers paid $51 million in overruns at Paul Brown Stadium, plus another $1 million spent by the county in legal fees trying to get some of that money back.

    The Reds will contribute $30 million toward construction of their stadium - with money coming directly from the team's bank account.

    The Bengals $26 million contribution to Paul Brown Stadium came from their fans, who purchased personal seat licenses for the right to buy season tickets. Hamilton County officials ran the seat license program and, last year, Bengals officials denied to the Internal Revenue Service that the $26 million was theirs.

    The Reds are paying more than $11 million for luxury items in the ballpark, such as statues of Crosley Field-era players, mosaics near the park's entrance, a sculpture on the side of the team's administration building and much of the Hall of Fame to open in 2004.

    In contrast, the Bengals complained when the county declined - amid cost overruns - to spend additional money for unbudgeted upgrades.

    In 1999, the Bengals were upset that Hamilton County refused to release funds for upgrades, which a lease provision allowed if the project came in under its $287 million budget. Construction managers advised the county against releasing the money, requesting instead that additional funds be used so they could hire more staff to ensure the stadium would open on time.

    Troy Blackburn, who is Mike Brown's son-in-law and worked as the team's director of stadium development, criticized the county's decision to hold onto the money.

    "It seems unseemly that (construction managers would) exacerbate the problem by requesting additional fee(s) now when ... they are arguing that the project not release any dollars for improvements or upgrades," Blackburn wrote in a June 10, 1999 memo. "This strikes me as analogous to the child that kills his parents and then asks the court for mercy because he is an orphan."

    Hamilton County Administrator Dave Krings said the Reds took a much different and more helpful approach to their project. The team worked with a lease agreement that forced the Reds to pay for overruns and capped the county's contribution to the stadium at $280 million.

    "With the Reds, it was a partnership arrangement from the start, both in terms of controlling the cost and producing a quality facility," Krings said.

    Helping that improved attitude is a construction project that has remained remarkably free of the overruns, controversy and squabbling between the team and the county that came to define the Paul Brown Stadium project.

    "To the Reds' credit, they did not push to get the kind of unconscionable deal that the Bengals got," said Todd Portune, Hamilton County commissioner. He won election in 2000 after running on a campaign that criticized overruns at the football stadium.

    Portune and others say Bengals' management was more demanding than the Reds in lease and construction negotiations.

    Architect Michael Schuster, who served as the Reds design consultant for the project, said cooperation defined the baseball project.

    "The Reds were very cost-conscious and felt they had a responsibility to the fans and the city to make sure that we spent the right amount of money," Schuster said. "Money was never a hammer hanging over every single issue because the Reds were willing to study the issues and make decisions that were helpful."

    John Allen, the Reds chief operating officer, wouldn't compare the deals. He said only that the Reds are pleased with their stadium.

    "We have a very, very tight budget and in order to do certain things, the Reds are paying for a few things on our own," Allen said. "I think the learning curve from (Paul Brown Stadium) had to have a positive impact on our job."

    The county hiring a construction project executive at more than $100,000 per year to act as a liaison between commissioners and the construction managers building the baseball stadium.

    Making sure there was sufficient contingency money in the budget for unanticipated expenses. The ballpark had a 10-percent contingency while the football stadium had just over 1 percent.

    The county hiring an outside construction auditor, at more than $500,000, to track expenses.

    Negotiating a Reds lease to make the team responsible for any overruns on the project. The lease also had no provision for financial penalties against the county if the ballpark wasn't completed on time.

    Holding all ballpark budget updates in public. That was something that didn't happen with Paul Brown Stadium until the Enquirer reported on the commissioners' practice of receiving project briefings in closed-door sessions, where they made decisions and even spent public money.

    The Reds' decision to hire a construction manager and design consultant to work with construction managers on the project.

    "We were responsible for any cost overruns, so we spent some money" on consultants, Allen said. "The county will tell you it really helped out to have a voice coming from the Reds."


    http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/03/18/wwwred1a18.html

  6. #50
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    Re: GABP Changes

    They are going to change the center field area. I really hope they move the fences back in CF. Could be done without losing seats. Right field needs to raise the fences some, a bunch of cheap one's drop in there just a few rows back. Do what the Phillies did, raise the fences a few feet (mesh) and add some flowers/shrubs around them.....take a few rows out. There outfield seats, they aren't that special anyways. I think they have said just minor tweaks have cut a good 30 dingers off there total there.....I agree. As much as people say the park is neutral. It is #1 this year in home runs allowed. Gives up a bunch of runs and pitcher's will not want to come here as FA. It was the main reason the Phils did change there new park, when first 2 years it was giving up way too many homers. They made changes.

  7. #51
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: GABP Changes

    For the person who prefers brick, the two buildings that "hide" the stark white concrete are brick.

    During yesterday's game, one of the interviewees stated they will add a party deck atop the batters eye and that foliage will also be added. In addition, a beer garden will be added between the batters eye and the misters under the smokestacks. He said some others things are also being considered but declined to elaborate.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  8. #52
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone View Post
    During yesterday's game, one of the interviewees stated they will add a party deck atop the batters eye and that foliage will also be added. In addition, a beer garden will be added between the batters eye and the misters under the smokestacks. He said some others things are also being considered but declined to elaborate.
    That was actually Bob Castellini's son Phil I believe who was being interviewed by George and Chris. Sounded like some interesting changes.

  9. #53
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
    That was actually Bob Castellini's son Phil I believe who was being interviewed by George and Chris. Sounded like some interesting changes.
    Ah, you're right! That's exactly who it was... I couldn't remember.

    I loved that yesterday's game was short on commercial interruption and enjoyed the interviews with the Reds' work force. It was very informative and a nice tribute to these folks on Labor Day.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  10. #54
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: GABP Changes

    i would actually like to get rid of the power stacks and relace it with oh, i don't know, something else classic baseball stadiums have. theres an element of cheapness in the stacks. you think im crazy don't you? stop labeling me!
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  11. #55
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    Re: GABP Changes

    I like the stacks, maybe it's just me. The beer garden idea seems to follow what happenned this past offseason at Miller Park. I don't know how a "party deck" on top of the batter's eye would look? It couldn't be good. I like GABP, I just wish they would fix the mess outside. It looks bad.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  12. #56
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: GABP Changes

    What mess outside? It has two very nice brick buildings... one housing the Reds Hall of Fame and gift shop and the other housing the administrative offices and the ticketing "booths", the latter sporting an absolutely beautiful bass relief from street level to the upper story.

    The plaza is welcoming with the inscribed bricks, low walls, and great statues that lead to the main entry gates. I think it's beautiful.

    There's no doubt in my mind that the party deck will not be an eyesore. It's not like it's just being thrown up there to utilize the space.

    I like the stacks too. They're reminiscent of the riverboats which are such a big part of Cincinnati's history. And the misters underneath are a Godsend on hot sticky days... which is just about every day throughout the summer. I'm not exactly sure of the location of the beer garden but it's somewhere in that vicinity... between the stacks and the batter's eye, I think.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  13. #57
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone View Post
    What mess outside?
    The mess outside would be the "banks" area. Of course, the Reds have no control over this, but may have some political power to bear.

    For the record, I hate the stacks. Cartoonish.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  14. #58
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone View Post
    What mess outside? It has two very nice brick buildings... one housing the Reds Hall of Fame and gift shop and the other housing the administrative offices and the ticketing "booths", the latter sporting an absolutely beautiful bass relief from street level to the upper story.

    The plaza is welcoming with the inscribed bricks, low walls, and great statues that lead to the main entry gates. I think it's beautiful.

    There's no doubt in my mind that the party deck will not be an eyesore. It's not like it's just being thrown up there to utilize the space.

    I like the stacks too. They're reminiscent of the riverboats which are such a big part of Cincinnati's history. And the misters underneath are a Godsend on hot sticky days... which is just about every day throughout the summer. I'm not exactly sure of the location of the beer garden but it's somewhere in that vicinity... between the stacks and the batter's eye, I think.
    I think it's a beautiful park, too. I like the stacks, as well. I'd get rid of the riverboat wheel (I think it's a bit hokey, but that's me) and grow ivy all over the black part of the batter's eye except for the black windows.

    The previous poster was probably referring to the "Banks," the mess that does exist between the Freedom Center and the ballpark.

  15. #59
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    Re: GABP Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I'd get rid of the riverboat wheel (I think it's a bit hokey, but that's me)
    The paddlewheel is actually down on street level at the public landing.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  16. #60
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: GABP Changes

    You're right, The Banks are a mess. But as you said, the Reds have no control over that. It will come in time, but Lord only knows how much time! The city just can't seem to get it done. I have no idea what the problem is. It would be nice if they just planted grass while the rusty wheel turns slowly in City Hall.

    Though it's not great, I kind of like the riverboat wheel and the "fog" it emits. It's not located inside the park though, so it certainly doesn't detract from it. It does add a bit of curiosity on the river walk.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn


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