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Thread: If you were Wayne...

  1. #16
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Need a closer.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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  3. #17
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    RedsManRick: I really think I like Junior better in LF. His legs are almost totally gone at this point and I think LF would pose much less problems to his health than trying to play a competent RF.

    Once we get Torii Hunter ( ) or some other competent CF, I like Freel as a RF'er more than anywhere else on the field.
    LF is just as big as RF in terms of movement. In fact, I imagine LF sees more action given the predominance of right handed hitters and a general pull tendency. It's the arm issue that differeniates which is the appropriate corner and Junior's arm plays in either place. Furthermore, Junior in LF means Dunn at 1B (or RF) which blocks the best offensive prospect in our system and devalues him in the trade market. I see no reason to move Jr to LF instead of RF. Also, keep in mind that despite his performance in the majors to date, Chris Denorfia is one of the best hitters in AAA and rated as the best defensive CF. Why do we need to spend 10MM on Torii Hunter, particularly given that he's no spring chicken and likely entering the beginning of the downslide of his career defensively?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #18
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Need a closer.
    Need a bullpen, top to bottom.

  5. #19
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    LF is just as big as RF in terms of movement. In fact, I imagine LF sees more action given the predominance of right handed hitters and a general pull tendency. It's the arm issue that differeniates which is the appropriate corner and Junior's arm plays in either place. Furthermore, Junior in LF means Dunn at 1B (or RF) which blocks the best offensive prospect in our system and devalues him in the trade market. I see no reason to move Jr to LF instead of RF. Also, keep in mind that despite his performance in the majors to date, Chris Denorfia is one of the best hitters in AAA and rated as the best defensive CF. Why do we need to spend 10MM on Torii Hunter, particularly given that he's no spring chicken and likely entering the beginning of the downslide of his career defensively?
    But we can agree that generally the weakest fielding component of an outfield battery is put in LF? I disagree on the movement aspect. Left-field is MUCH easier to play in terms of 'ground responsible for' than RF (from my own experiences) b/c the throwing aspect of making a catch is so much more important. I like Freel's action, movement, which adds up to throwing ability in RF over JR.

    If Deno could show us all that he's capable of defeating the Mendoza line.... I love the kid's D!

    Torii has at least 3-4 years where he will be operating near peak, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  6. #20
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Torii has at least 3-4 years where he will be operating near peak, IMO.
    Do we want another GREAT outfielder coming from Astroturf?

  7. #21
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    But we can agree that generally the weakest fielding component of an outfield battery is put in LF? I disagree on the movement aspect. Left-field is MUCH easier to play in terms of 'ground responsible for' than RF (from my own experiences) b/c the throwing aspect of making a catch is so much more important. I like Freel's action, movement, which adds up to throwing ability in RF over JR.

    If Deno could show us all that he's capable of defeating the Mendoza line.... I love the kid's D!

    Torii has at least 3-4 years where he will be operating near peak, IMO.
    So, when exactly does Deno get this opportunity? When he's backing up Torii Hunter? You can't judge his performance in >100 major league part time at bats and ignore that he was a few AB short of winning the AAA batting title. Yes, I know there are Brandon Larson's out there, but Deno has put up a .244/.340/.333 line in the MLB and he just turned 26. He's not exactly a 30 year old rookie. The SLG% hurts, but he's showing he can beat the Mendoza line and has yet to get a real opportunity. Sign a Torii Hunter and move Dunn to 1B and you might as well just trade both Deno and Votto.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #22
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    Do we want another GREAT outfielder coming from Astroturf?
    Ahhhhhhhh if that didn't hurt so bad I would laugh!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  9. #23
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    So, when exactly does Deno get this opportunity? When he's backing up Torii Hunter? You can't judge his performance in >100 major league part time at bats and ignore that he was a few AB short of winning the AAA batting title. Yes, I know there are Brandon Larson's out there, but Deno has put up a .244/.340/.333 line in the MLB and he just turned 26. He's not exactly a 30 year old rookie. The SLG% hurts, but he's showing he can beat the Mendoza line and has yet to get a real opportunity. Sign a Torii Hunter and move Dunn to 1B and you might as well just trade both Deno and Votto.
    I wouldn't be adverse to trading those two, RMR, if the return was commensurate, but if you truly believe that Deno can become an everyday CF'er, OFFENSIVELY, I would love to see it happen as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  10. #24
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    But we can agree that generally the weakest fielding component of an outfield battery is put in LF? I disagree on the movement aspect. Left-field is MUCH easier to play in terms of 'ground responsible for' than RF (from my own experiences) b/c the throwing aspect of making a catch is so much more important. I like Freel's action, movement, which adds up to throwing ability in RF over JR.

    If Deno could show us all that he's capable of defeating the Mendoza line.... I love the kid's D!

    Torii has at least 3-4 years where he will be operating near peak, IMO.
    LF tends to be the easier position and where you would have your worst fielders.

    Manny, Dunn, Carlos Lee, Bonds, Soriano, and Chris Duncan are the worst fielders I can think of, and they are all LF'ers. I'm sure the list goes on.

  11. #25
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    I wouldn't be adverse to trading those two, RMR, if the return was commensurate, but if you truly believe that Deno can become an everyday CF'er, OFFENSIVELY, I would love to see it happen as well.
    You just need to understand that the average major league CF simply isn't all that great. Cyclone (I believe) posted it elsewhere, but if he can give us a .750 OPS and great defense, he would be in the upper half of major league center fielders.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #26
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    LF tends to be the easier position and where you would have your worst fielders.

    Manny, Dunn, Carlos Lee, Bonds, Soriano, and Chris Duncan are the worst fielders I can think of, and they are all LF'ers. I'm sure the list goes on.
    Assuming you don't want to hold back Votto, you need both Dunn & Junior in the OF. I couldn't care less which of them is in RF. Dunn can't read a ball, Junior can't run. They can both make the necessary throws, though Junior is probably a bit more accurate. Personally, I'd rather Junior making the right read in RF and getting in position to make throws when they count. A route mistake in LF often means a double. A route mistake in RF often means a triple.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 09-06-2006 at 09:14 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #27
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    punting
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #28
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    You just need to understand that the average major league CF simply isn't all that great. Cyclone (I believe) posted it elsewhere, but if he can give us a .750 OPS and great defense, he would be in the upper half of major league center fielders.
    Well thanks for reminding me of that. Haha, keeping track of Cyclone's brilliant posts is difficult.

    If Deno can maintain the offense to legitimize a major league career, his tools have shown me that he is supremely capable of playing a GREAT centerfield. He looks REALLY uncomfortable right now, in all aspects. (understandable)
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  15. #29
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Reds have two issues. First, they are a .500 team at home. They have to improve at home.

    Second, $33 million next year goes to four guys: Milton, Dunn, Griff and Larue. This is too much for those four.

    Moves: Milton needs to go to a team with a bigger stadium. Reds need to add two starters who are GABP friendly. This should dramatically help the Reds who have good offensive, but poor pitching numbers at home.

    Griff/Dunn -- one should go. They both have good power but at this stage don't provide too much else. At $19 million next year, would trade one and replace with higher BA, better defensive outfielder, even if homers would be reduced.

    Larue shouldn't stay unless team intends to play him. From payroll viewpoint, can't carry him at $5.5 M as a backup. If he stays, Ross would go, but I assume it would be Larue who goes.

    If the Reds do these things, they will be much better and may even have some money to work with. They also need another middle infielder and closer. If they take care of the starting pitching/outfield/catcher things, I can live with Aurilia and closer by committee for one more year.
    I like a lot of your points.

    We do have a lot of payroll tied up in 4 guys, but LaRue is the only guy I see as being the biggest need to go. After that, I can tolerate Dunn and Griffey, but I can see where some can't. It's a lot of money tied up in not a lot of 2006 production. As for Milton, I feel we'd have to move him in a pure salary dump just to get him off the books. If that's the case, moving LaRue and Milton then make the Dunn/Griffey combo affordable. I'd rather pay for Dunn/Griffey than paying any money to Milton and LaRue.

    I think we definitely need to address better coaching, primarily starting with Narron, and then getting better pitching coaches. Chambliss I think has done what should be expected of him with our current roster. I'm not happy with the coaching staff, but I'm not sure the solution. Get rid of Narron, go from there.

    I almost feel as if there's too many needs/issues to address in 1 offsesaon. Look at 2008, hopefully by then, Homer our Savior will be ready to make that positive contribution.

  16. #30
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    Re: If you were Wayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Need a bullpen, top to bottom.
    Get the top and bottom will sort out. There are enough pieces.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle


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