Yes or No?
Yes or No?
“I’m a normal guy blessed with the ability to hit a baseball.” - Sean Casey
Hafner looks like he is going to be a pretty special hitter, not that Dunn isn't. Adam may hit a few more HRs but Hafner will probably be more of a clutch hitter & drive in more with base hits. They both seem to walk a lot, but yea.. I would definitely take Hafner
I'll stick with Dunn because he's younger.
Would we get to call him "Big Pronkey"?
Seriously, if he could handle 1B on a daily basis, I'd rather have Hafner in the lineup than Dunn.
Forgetting the circmstances and positions and based on pure hitting ability - yes.
But Hafner can play only 1B and isn't very good there. We have Votto coming and with 1B easiest to fill it is harder to get good value for 1B prospects in trade than other positions. If you trade Dunn for Hafner, then you may end-up trading Votto for something that probably is not as good as he projects to be. So I voted no.
But I'd do it if I knew I could fill another need by trading Votto.
I voted no.
Hafner has had an excellent year, and is a very good OBP guy, mayber even better than Dunn. But he doesn't play in the field, never really has for any extended period of time.
While an excellent hitter, I think Hafner is a typical Amercan League player, and would be best served by staying in the AL.
The Reds have problems enough in the field as it is, without adding a player that you just have no idea if he's going to be able to field his position.
Why does Dunn playing LF vs. Hafner playing 1B matter? Dunn is without a doubt terrible at LF, so put Dunn at 1B and almost anybody outside of Bonds/Manny would be a defensive upgrade to Dunn in LF.
Hafner is just as good OBP, with not quite as much power as Dunn, but the K's go down bigtime and thus I would say many more RBIs for Hafner vs. Dunn. Also, when you look how this team is being built (if you can see a definable building plan offensively) we need a guy to get 'em in vs. get on right now. Only EdE is a viable RBI guy in the lineup for the future right now.
Hafner is so bad at 1b, that no one will even play him there. Improving defense is a priority for the Reds; why add a guy who can't even play 1B? Please note that I do not questions Hafner's hitting ability at all, I just think he's a prototypical AL'er.
BTW- 100 RBI a year for 3 years in a row does indeed make one (Adam Dunn) a "viable RBI guy," even if he is driving himself in 40 times a year.
I just see no point in labeling Hafner as a defensive liability at 1b, when Dunn is just occupying space in LF as well. Defense for these two guys is a wash no matter which one plays LF or 1b.
How many times has Hafner been on the DL in his short career? I couldn't find an actual list but I'm pretty sure it has been quite a few times. If he can't stay off the DL as a DH then no way do I want him playing first base on a daily basis. His yearly games would probably drop from 140 down to 120 or so.
I do think he is one of the top 10 all-around hitters in the game today but he needs to stay in the AL for his entire career if he is gonna stay healthy and have any chance at being around for a long time.
I agree with the premise that it is much harder to hide a poor defensive 1b than a poor defensive lf. A great defensive cf can hide a lot of the flaws of a subpar lf. On the other hand no one can cover for a 1b with poor footwork who, for that, or some other reason cannot catch the difficult throws.
I myself have made peace with the idea of trading Dunn, but only for the purpose of significantly improving our defense and pitching. Although he is a great hitter, Hafner accomplishes neither.
Last edited by puca; 09-11-2006 at 09:30 AM.
Bear with me, here, UK Reds Fan, I've been looking up defensive stats and defense is apparently a hard thing to quantify, statistically.
There are 2 measures that I've been seeing more, and more, to help to measure defensive play. They are range factor and zone rating.
Range Factor (RF) is: "(Putouts + Assists) x 9 divided by Defensive Innings Played. Range Factor simply stated is the number of plays MADE per game at the fielding position. It is better than Fielding Average in several respects: It can be calculated for almost any player this century and it takes into account the fielder's own ability to get to a batted ball - rewarding the more gifted players at each position. Positions can only be successfully compared to the same position on the field when using this statistic and early in the season numbers are often skewed as players chances are not yet normalized."
Zone Rating (ZR) is a defensive rating developed by STATS,Inc. "STATS, Inc. developed their own defensive rating system to also track locations of EVERY hit ball for EVERY game played - similar to the above Defensive Average statistic. The Zone Rating system is different because the area of responsibility, or zone, for each fielder is considered a "playable" area and does not account for balls hit into "Bermuda Triangles", "No Mans Land" or other impossible to field balls. A fielder that turns a double play is credited with 2 outs in the ZR system as their play on the ball actually resulted in both outs versus Defensive Average which only credits the 1 out. STATS, Inc. books area available at every bookstore and their work is updated on a yearly basis for player comparisons."
Using these two rating systems to look at Adam Dunn's defense reveals the following, since 2002:
In 2002, Dunn made 8 errors (E), had 9 assists (A), was 6th in qualifiers in RF and 11th in ZR
In 2003, he did not qualify as a LF (I think he was injured, and also played a bit of 1B that year, as I recall.)
in 2004, 8 E, 10A, 14th in RF, 11th in ZR
in 2005, 5 E, 6 A, 9th in RF and 12th in ZR
in 2006 thus far, 11 E, 5 A, 11th in RF and 16th in ZR.
Dunn has certainly not had a good year defensively, this year. But then I never said he was a good LF. I said he was average. The numbers show him to be avg-below avg, and maybe even getting worse, at least this year. I would say he is adequate, especially given his offensive abilities. If you cannot see how a CF with better range than Junior could help Dunn in left, then I cannot help you with that.
There are worse LF than Adam Dunn, believe it or not, who play out there very day. You could look it up! http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...umn=zoneRating
Travis Hafner has no statistics at 1B to speak of; why would you take someone who has not played and expect them to do so, and then swear that they would as good a job as Dunn? I don't get it.
Hafner is a designated hitter, period. Excellent hitter, but he simply cannot play the field. He's a much better fit for an AL team than he is for the Reds, so I wouldn't make the trade.
Hafner has no position. He is so bad defensively that Cleveland often sits him during interleague play in NL parks. In doingso they obviously feel that his superior offense is not worth the large downgrade in defense. Hafner is a DH, period.
What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand