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Thread: Complete this trade idea..

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    Complete this trade idea..

    During the upcoming offseason I would look for Baltimore to once again entertain the idea of moving Miguel Tejeda. Now, if you were Wayne Krivsky would you take that opportunity and put together a package including Adam Dunn to get Miguel Tejeda? (I for one have wanted to see Tejeda in a Reds uniform since his departure from Oakland, his intensity and love for the game would be a perfect match for Cincinnati, it has been a long time since this ballclub has had a player of that caliber.)

    The key to this deal is to not only get Tejeda but to also find a way to get Erik Bedard in this package also. What else would have to be included to snag these two?

    If the rumors were true during the July 31st deadline, the idea of Tejeda coming to Cincinnati was more than speculation. But it was at the expense of Homer Bailey and that tells us Wayne Krivsky is not looking to move him. So excluding Bailey what would it take to get this deal done?
    Last edited by Gamble; 09-15-2006 at 04:43 AM.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    I don't think you can get Bedard w/o including Bailey.

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Rumor is Tejeda is better at third defensively than at shortstop.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    Rumor is Tejeda is better at third defensively than at shortstop.
    The reds already have third base covered with EE. I would keep Tejada at SS. How about Dunn, Coffey and Cormier. One could wish!!!

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't think you can get Bedard w/o including Bailey.
    THey probably couldn't get him even including Bailey.

    Would you trade EE for a package including a hot-shot third base propsect?

    You don't trade a young cheap sure thing for a "possible". You do trade an expensive sure thing in a package for a hot-shot. The time to get Bedard was before he broke through or when he's on the verge of FA.

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
    During the upcoming offseason I would look for Baltimore to once again entertain the idea of moving Miguel Tejeda. Now, if you were Wayne Krivsky would you take that opportunity and put together a package including Adam Dunn to get Miguel Tejeda? (I for one have wanted to see Tejeda in a Reds uniform since his departure from Oakland, his intensity and love for the game would be a perfect match for Cincinnati, it has been a long time since this ballclub has had a player of that caliber.)

    The key to this deal is to not only get Tejeda but to also find a way to get Erik Bedard in this package also. What else would have to be included to snag these two?

    If the rumors were true during the July 31st deadline, the idea of Tejeda coming to Cincinnati was more than speculation. But it was at the expense of Homer Bailey and that tells us Wayne Krivsky is not looking to move him. So excluding Bailey what would it take to get this deal done?
    Dunn, Cueto, and Medlock for Tejada.

    Stay away from Bedard.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
    During the upcoming offseason I would look for Baltimore to once again entertain the idea of moving Miguel Tejeda. Now, if you were Wayne Krivsky would you take that opportunity and put together a package including Adam Dunn to get Miguel Tejeda? (I for one have wanted to see Tejeda in a Reds uniform since his departure from Oakland, his intensity and love for the game would be a perfect match for Cincinnati, it has been a long time since this ballclub has had a player of that caliber.)

    The key to this deal is to not only get Tejeda but to also find a way to get Erik Bedard in this package also. What else would have to be included to snag these two?

    If the rumors were true during the July 31st deadline, the idea of Tejeda coming to Cincinnati was more than speculation. But it was at the expense of Homer Bailey and that tells us Wayne Krivsky is not looking to move him. So excluding Bailey what would it take to get this deal done?
    1. Welcome to RedsZone!

    2. I'm a Tejada fan, but I would never move Dunn for Tejada. Not in a million years.

    3. As for Bedard, I'm not sold on him, and I would like to see how this Homer Bailey rollercoaster plays out first. While I fully expect Homer Bailey to never remotely even closely realize the ridiculously lofty expectations placed on him by us fans, he may be serviceable, as a #3.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    THey probably couldn't get him even including Bailey.

    Would you trade EE for a package including a hot-shot third base propsect?

    You don't trade a young cheap sure thing for a "possible". You do trade an expensive sure thing in a package for a hot-shot. The time to get Bedard was before he broke through or when he's on the verge of FA.
    I agree for the most part. The key word in the original post was including Bailey (along with Dunn). My point was no Bedard w/o Bailey. But like you, still not sure even with him.

    I'd also be squeamish about dealing Dunn. Next year at $10 Million he is still cheap for his 40 HRs and high OBP. It would likely take $13 to $15 million to replace his production on the FA market. That would probably be in LF and you would still have the same problem of where to play JR, no good everyday option in CF, and less money for pitching. Sure you could probably sign Hunter with the money and fix a couple of those problems, but the offense would be worse with Hunter subbing for Dunn IMO. Hunter is a very, very good complimentary player. But a complimentary player he is. W/O Dunn this team needs a centerpiece.

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't think you can get Bedard w/o including Bailey.

    Agreed. I do not believe there would any way to pull a deal off like that w/o Bailey heading the other way.

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Sure you could probably sign Hunter with the money and fix a couple of those problems, but the offense would be worse with Hunter subbing for Dunn IMO. Hunter is a very, very good complimentary player. But a complimentary player he is. W/O Dunn this team needs a centerpiece.
    I agree with you in principle here. There are so few true franchise players, when you get one you need to hang on to them with both hands.

    Unfortunately, neither Dunn nor Griffey qualify as a true franchise player. They're both complementary players, and this team has no centerpiece. That doesn't mean Dunn never will be, but the time is quickly approaching to decide whether you build around him or trade him while his value is high. His disappearing act every September is simply not the stuff a centerpiece is made of.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by Natty Redlocks View Post
    His disappearing act every September is simply not the stuff a centerpiece is made of.
    How many Septembers have the Reds been in contention for him to disappear? This sounds like a yearly occurrence.

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    How many Septembers have the Reds been in contention for him to disappear? This sounds like a yearly occurrence.
    His career September OPS was around .755 last time I checked.

    Todd Hollandsworth's career September OPS is around .775.

    If your team would be better off benching you for T-Hole down the stretch, you MIGHT not be a franchise player.

  14. #13
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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by Natty Redlocks View Post
    His career September OPS was around .755 last time I checked.

    Todd Hollandsworth's career September OPS is around .775.

    If your team would be better off benching you for T-Hole down the stretch, you MIGHT not be a franchise player.
    We all have stats we think are important I suppose. If you pick and choose enough you can seemingly make a case for or against anything. Stats are great when applied correctly. You can choose the small sample size of Sept OPS which were accumulated through years of meaningless games with many of his team's primary players sitting out with injury (Griffey, Kearns, Casey, Pena, Boone, etc.) during most of those years.

    I choose to see a guy who won't be 27 until November, who has put up 3 years in a row with over 40 Homers, a high OBP and a high OPS. There aren't many players with stats like that in MLB and even fewer that are only 26. I seriously doubt many will become available to build this team around and if they are they will probably cost more than $10 Million. I'd trade Dunn if I could get a serious haul that filled three or four needs long term. Lacking that I would build around the guy. Don't make the mistake of thinking that trading Dunn is payroll relief. It will cost more than he is paid to replace him.

    We probably just disagree on this point.

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by Natty Redlocks View Post
    I agree with you in principle here. There are so few true franchise players, when you get one you need to hang on to them with both hands.

    Unfortunately, neither Dunn nor Griffey qualify as a true franchise player. They're both complementary players, and this team has no centerpiece. That doesn't mean Dunn never will be, but the time is quickly approaching to decide whether you build around him or trade him while his value is high. His disappearing act every September is simply not the stuff a centerpiece is made of.
    Dunn is a franchise player. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. EE is developing into a franchise player. Right now, Harang is our franchise pitcher.

    But, in your world, the Reds lack a franchise player....

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    Re: Complete this trade idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    We all have stats we think are important I suppose. If you pick and choose enough you can seemingly make a case for or against anything. Stats are great when applied correctly. You can choose the small sample size of Sept OPS which were accumulated through years of meaningless games with many of his team's primary players sitting out with injury (Griffey, Kearns, Casey, Pena, Boone, etc.) during most of those years.

    I choose to see a guy who won't be 27 until November, who has put up 3 years in a row with over 40 Homers, a high OBP and a high OPS. There aren't many players with stats like that in MLB and even fewer that are only 26. I seriously doubt many will become available to build this team around and if they are they will probably cost more than $10 Million. I'd trade Dunn if I could get a serious haul that filled three or four needs long term. Lacking that I would build around the guy. Don't make the mistake of thinking that trading Dunn is payroll relief. It will cost more than he is paid to replace him.

    We probably just disagree on this point.
    It's not just September, though. I just checked: his lifetime August OPS is .820 -- pretty ordinary for your best hitter. And Sept. has now dropped to .748, which means that for the last two months of the season, his entire career, the OPS is well below .800. That's not a tiny sample size. It's roughly a third of his at-bats, arguably the most important third, with pennant races going on and theoretically playoff games ahead. If the Reds ever make the playoffs, do you want it to be with your "franchise player" in a free fall since July?

    I really really do understand the value of Dunn. I love his patience. He does his part to make pitchers work. He's an imposing presence in the lineup. He gets on base and scores a lot. He drives in more runs than anyone else on the team. He's really young and may get way better. He's better defensively than most people give him credit for.

    But he's going to get very expensive very soon. The time is coming to decide whether he's your guy to build your offense around or not. If so, bat him third and leave him there. If not, start exploring what you can get for him. This offseason would be a good time for that.


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