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Thread: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

  1. #1
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    Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    I think it is among the following 5.
    bill caudill to the cubs
    bill dawley to the astros
    mike caldwell to the brewers
    charlie liebrandt to the royals
    tony gonzalez to the phillies

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Paul O'Neill to the Yankees?

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Ross Grimsley for Merv Rettenmund?
    Hal McRae for Roger Neslon and Richie Scheinbloom?
    Chris Reitsma for Bubba Neslon and Jung Bong (when I knew Dano was over his head for sure)?

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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    excellent suggestion, to which must be added
    cesar tovar for gerry arrigo
    roger nelson for hal macrae
    ross grimsley for merv rettenmund
    milt wilcox to the tigers for zero
    and
    giving claude osteen to the washington senators

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Christy Mathewson for Amos Rusie is the worst trade by the Reds ever, including the Frank Robinson deal. After this trade, Mathewson won 372 games for the Giants, while Rusie won zero for the Reds (or anybody else).
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Christy Mathewson for Amos Rusie is the worst trade by the Reds ever, including the Frank Robinson deal. After this trade, Mathewson won 372 games for the Giants, while Rusie won zero for the Reds (or anybody else).


    Yep. No other trade even close to that.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    I guess that settles it, although I was thinking that the trade of Jesse Gonder to the Mets was cataclysmic

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Christy Mathewson for Amos Rusie is the worst trade by the Reds ever, including the Frank Robinson deal. After this trade, Mathewson won 372 games for the Giants, while Rusie won zero for the Reds (or anybody else).
    You win

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Joe Adcock for Rocky Bridges

    Hank Sauer & Frankie Baumholtz for Harry Walker and Peanuts Lowrey

    50K for Chick Hafey, but first had to borrow the 50 K from the Cardinals and then used it to buy Hafey... then had to pay the Cards back with interest.

    Hafey only played in 83 games his first season and only topped 500 ab's 2 more times as a Red.

  11. #10
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Hank Sauer & Frankie Baumholtz for Harry Walker and Peanuts Lowrey
    I have been thinking about Sauer in recent days, after all the "trade Dunn" posts and Paul Daughery's silly column. Bill McKechnie was a HOF manager, but he was an extreme good defense regardless of offense manager, who almost certainly would both bench Dunn and would try to trade him if McKechnie was managing the Reds today.
    McKechnie wouldn't play Hank Sauer, even though Sauer played great in the minors and showed he could hit in the majors; unfortunately he wasn't a good glove man. The Reds were long past McKechnie's glory years. After the 1946 season, when the Reds went 67-87 and were last in the majors in runs scored, McKechnie was fired. By the time Sauer got to play regularly in the majors, he was 31 years old. He hit 288 major league home runs, 281 after his 31st birthday, and most of those after he left the Reds. He hit more HRs after his 31st birthday than did Mike Schmidt, Jimmie Foxx, Frank Robinson, Reggie Jackson, Mickey Mantle, Ernie Banks or Harmin Killebrew. He was the 1952 NL MVP at age 35, leading the NL with 37 HRs and 121 RBI (actually, Jackie Robinson should've won the award that season, but I digress).
    If Hank Sauer was with the Reds and, say, age 26 or 28 or 30, Paul Daugherty would probably be writing columns about how the Reds should trade Sauer and "hope" to get "value," and some posters here would be hoping for a scrappy glove man to play in leftfield.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    I have been thinking about Sauer in recent days, after all the "trade Dunn" posts and Paul Daughery's silly column. Bill McKechnie was a HOF manager, but he was an extreme good defense regardless of offense manager, who almost certainly would both bench Dunn and would try to trade him if McKechnie was managing the Reds today.
    McKechnie wouldn't play Hank Sauer, even though Sauer played great in the minors and showed he could hit in the majors; unfortunately he wasn't a good glove man. The Reds were long past McKechnie's glory years. After the 1946 season, when the Reds went 67-87 and were last in the majors in runs scored, McKechnie was fired. By the time Sauer got to play regularly in the majors, he was 31 years old. He hit 288 major league home runs, 281 after his 31st birthday, and most of those after he left the Reds. He hit more HRs after his 31st birthday than did Mike Schmidt, Jimmie Foxx, Frank Robinson, Reggie Jackson, Mickey Mantle, Ernie Banks or Harmin Killebrew. He was the 1952 NL MVP at age 35, leading the NL with 37 HRs and 121 RBI (actually, Jackie Robinson should've won the award that season, but I digress).
    If Hank Sauer was with the Reds and, say, age 26 or 28 or 30, Paul Daugherty would probably be writing columns about how the Reds should trade Sauer and "hope" to get "value," and some posters here would be hoping for a scrappy glove man to play in leftfield.

    Hank Sauer came to camp in Tampa in 1949 fresh off setting the Reds single season record for home runs, the 31-year-old WW 2 vet had worked his way through the Reds system since the early 1940’s and had starred at Rochester after the war, yet still he could get no interest from Warren Giles until 1948 when deadball era manager Bill McKetchnie finally left. It was then that he finally won the left field job and ended up the season with 35 home runs, a Reds team record. Sauer was a dead pull hitter playing in a park that boasted that it had the most expansive outfield in the major leagues, however the LF line was only 328 feet away and the wall was 18 feet high. However, operating under the adage that a manager knows best in the spring of 1949 Reds manager Bucky Walters entered camp with a pet project, he and his staff were going to get Hank Sauer to use the whole field, not only would he get 30 home runs buy he would rack up the doubles as well. Sauer was no spring chicken, and the 31 year old took offense to the request and promptly replied, “You wanted to provide power and I hit 35 homers, what in the hell is wrong with that?” Despite his pleas they still attempted the change, focusing much of the spring on taking the ball to right field. Sauer eventually worked so much that his hands swelled up from the change in approach, limiting all his baseball activities, it was then that the project was stopped and Sauer was allowed to return to his prior hitting approach. Because of the lack of regular work Sauer had a hard time finding his stroke in the early part of 1949 and by June he had only batted 152 times and he had only .673 OPS.

    Once again the Reds brain trust made a move that they would rather forget than remember when they traded Sauer and Frank Baumholtz to the Cubs for Peanuts Lawrey and Harry Walker, a lopsided deal if there ever was one, this deal was later termed by Reds GM Warren Giles as “The worst deal I ever made.”

    When asked by the Sauer why he was traded Bucky Walters replied, ”Because I couldn’t make an all around hitter out of you.” Sauer went on to hit 242 home runs for assorted teams around baseball and took home the MVP award in 1952. He never was much of a doubles hitter only topping 25 twice in his career. However his dead pull hitting made him a popular slugger in a hitter’s era and the Reds got nothing out of it other than the heartbreak of watching him do it in another teams uniform.

    Bucky Walters was let go by the Reds after the 153rd game of the season. He never managed in the major leagues again.

    I wonder why.

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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Quote Originally Posted by redsupport View Post
    I guess that settles it, although I was thinking that the trade of Jesse Gonder to the Mets was cataclysmic
    The nadir.

  14. #13
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Mathewson was a bad trade but there was much more to it:

    Rusie for Mathewson
    There's a lot more to the trade that sent Rusie to the Reds than meets the eye. Late in 1900, Cincinnati owner John Brush was in the process of completing a deal to buy controlling interest of the New York Giants from Andrew Freedman. Brush wanted desperately to get into the New York market. The deal was contingent on Brush being able to bring young pitcher Christy Mathewson with him. Freedman agreed to swap Rusie for Mathewson a few months before the sale of the teams, fully aware that Rusie's arm was shot. The deal was announced, Mathewson went to New York, Rusie went to Cincinnati and pitched just three games, and Brush bought the Giants from Freedman for a hefty price. Brush had smuggled in his ace, who would win 372 games for the Giants in 17 seasons.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Mathewson was a bad trade but there was much more to it:

    Rusie for Mathewson
    There's a lot more to the trade that sent Rusie to the Reds than meets the eye. Late in 1900, Cincinnati owner John Brush was in the process of completing a deal to buy controlling interest of the New York Giants from Andrew Freedman. Brush wanted desperately to get into the New York market. The deal was contingent on Brush being able to bring young pitcher Christy Mathewson with him. Freedman agreed to swap Rusie for Mathewson a few months before the sale of the teams, fully aware that Rusie's arm was shot. The deal was announced, Mathewson went to New York, Rusie went to Cincinnati and pitched just three games, and Brush bought the Giants from Freedman for a hefty price. Brush had smuggled in his ace, who would win 372 games for the Giants in 17 seasons.
    Freedman also made some jack off o fthe deal.

    Prior to the 1900 season Freedman cut a deal with Norfolk to purchase 19-year-old pitcher Christy Mathewson for $1500, first Freedman was given the opportunity to try him out. After going0-3 Freedman decided he wanted out of the deal and returned Matty to the Norfolk franchise, who promptly lost him for the cost of $100 in a waiver deal to the Cincinnati Reds. The Reds who were hardly a powerhouse could have used Mathewson; instead they traded him to the man (Freedman) who said he didn’t want him prior.

    The cost?

    Amos Rusie, the “Hoosier Thunderbolt” a man that had openly battled with Freedman and sat out the 1896 season in a salary protest. To compound matters Rusie had also not pitched in 1899 or 1900. Once a Reds he threw 3 games and promptly retired with arm troubles. Reds fans have forever lamented the loss of the future Hall of Famer, most unaware that the back door dealings of Brush and Freedman most likely engineered the whole deal with the goal of saving $1400 and screwing the Norfolk club.

    Which they did in a major way.

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    Re: Worst Reds Trade(excluding FRobby)

    Maybe not the same caliber, but the Konerko trade has to be mentioned.


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