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Thread: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

  1. #1
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Reds lead the NL in pitches seen per plate appearance. Believe it or not, the Reds continue to lead the NL with a 3.85 p/pa rate. See THIS LINK for the full stats.

    Among the Reds, there are 3 of the top 20 players in the NL in p/pa rate. Dunn is number 5, Freel is number 9, and Hatteberg is 18. Also note that Felipe Lopez is #8, and Kearns is #11. The National League Top 20 is HERE.

    This leads to the Reds leading the National League in walks. See THIS LINK.

    Among other interesting stat notes: The Reds are dead LAST in the NL in BA w/ RISP, at .248. Also we are 4th worst in team batting average in the majors. We move up to 4th in OBP(.338), thanks to all our walks.

    Finally, we lead the National League in homers(206), and are last in triples(11). See THIS LINK. We are 4th in team slugging at this point; .438.
    Last edited by mbgrayson; 09-17-2006 at 10:45 PM.
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Yet a lot of people complain about the lack of patience with this team........but i also wonder how much more pitches they were seeing on AVG from April through June...you have that stat?

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    Member harangatang's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    And all of this without D'Angelo Jimenez. Shocking.

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    All those things and a team that can't win. How could that be?
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    All those things and a team that can't win. How could that be?
    Because they have a pitching staff that once again ranks in the bottom half of the league?

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    Reds lead the NL in pitches seen per plate appearance. Believe it or not, the Reds continue to lead the NL with a 3.85 p/pa rate. See THIS LINK for the full stats.
    How can this be? I thought we traded away all of our patience and plate discipline?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Member Crosley68's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Where are we in terms of ranking in strikeouts? It takes at least 3.00 p/pa to accomplish that! ;-)
    Let's play two!!!

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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosley68 View Post
    Where are we in terms of ranking in strikeouts? It takes at least 3.00 p/pa to accomplish that! ;-)
    3rd in the NL.

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    How can this be? I thought we traded away all of our patience and plate discipline?
    Well ...

    Pre-ASB: PA/BB of ~9.74
    Post-ASB: PA/BB of ~10.72

    Both the above PA figures are excluding SF and SH, but that shouldn't make one bit of difference in terms of highlighting the walk rate. As can be seen, however, the team walk rate went in the wrong direction.
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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Building on what Cyclone said: The Reds were the most patient team in the NL. They're not the same team anymore.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Well ...

    Pre-ASB: PA/BB of ~9.74
    Post-ASB: PA/BB of ~10.72

    Both the above PA figures are excluding SF and SH, but that shouldn't make one bit of difference in terms of highlighting the walk rate. As can be seen, however, the team walk rate went in the wrong direction.
    This is no mystery though. We traded away two offensive players, for pitching. WK knew this would happen.

    Leading the league in P/AB is nice to see, but sometimes it is deceiving. It might now ALWAYS be great patience because a lot of swing and misses add up to more pitches seen. But the high SLG % and OBP is a good sign though too.

    Scott Hatteberg sees a lot of pitches, and gets on base without swinging and missing much.

    Dunn sees a lot, gets on base not as frequently, and swings and misses a lot.
    (Just throwing that out there, not really trying to take away from the positive numbers.)

  13. #12
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    This is no mystery though. We traded away two offensive players, for pitching. WK knew this would happen.

    Leading the league in P/AB is nice to see, but sometimes it is deceiving. It might now ALWAYS be great patience because a lot of swing and misses add up to more pitches seen. But the high SLG % and OBP is a good sign though too.

    Scott Hatteberg sees a lot of pitches, and gets on base without swinging and missing much.

    Dunn sees a lot, gets on base not as frequently, and swings and misses a lot.
    (Just throwing that out there, not really trying to take away from the positive numbers.)
    Knowing you're going to lose a little bit of offense and then going out and losing .70 runs per game are two totally different things. The former is making a small sacrifice in an attempt to make run differential gains via better pitching/defense while the latter is decimating an offense altogether.

    Over about 60 games, we've replaced ~25 walks with maybe four hits and 21 outs. That's just the value in lost walks, nothing more, and doesn't include other lost value in the frequency of hitting counts (Kearns was third on the team, 20 percent better than league average).

    Ouch.

    BTW, if you want to see a true value example of what we lost in terms of plate discipline, working the count, etc., go back and examine the 2004 ALCS, Games 1-7. Split the series into two groups, one for Games 1-3, and the other for Games 4-7. In each group, analyze which team, Boston or New York, controlled the strike zone offensively and defensively as a collective unit.

    The answer should be very telling.
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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Because they have a pitching staff that once again ranks in the bottom half of the league?
    And an offense that cannot consistently score runs.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    And an offense that cannot consistently score runs.
    Can't argue with that. The Reds offense has been steadily sinking the last couple of months.

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    Re: The Reds are the most patient team at the plate in the NL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Knowing you're going to lose a little bit of offense and then going out and losing .70 runs per game are two totally different things. The former is making a small sacrifice in an attempt to make run differential gains via better pitching/defense while the latter is decimating an offense altogether.
    I don't know their VORP's right now, but losing Kearns and Lopez, it should have been expect to lose a lot of offense. Take their EqR and it should be obvious that being replaced by Royce Clayton and Ryan Freel would lower the teams runs....

    But, I am kind of surprised by the drop of .7 runs. Moving Lopez allowed EdE to come in and play everyday again, and he has been very good this season and post all-star break. It also allowed Rich Aurilia to bat every day and he has been great since the AS break. Freel has been OK at the plate and gets on base (although not as effective as Kearns at the plate).

    I would like to see Dunn's, Griffey's, Phillips, and Hatte's EqR after the break. I guess they probably got affected by the Trade too, or just came back to Earth.

    But I don't think it was just the trade that killed our run production.


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