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Thread: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

  1. #1
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    from a revenue based standpoint. Could we ever get to the level of a St. Louis in terms of tickets/merchandise/tv dollars??? If not StL, what would be the town you would most compare us to around the ML. I realize ultimately the payroll is a decision made by RCast, but I was just wondering what kind of bucks this team could bring in in an ideal environment.

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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    Well, for the decade of the 1970's only one other venue, Dodger Stadium, put more folks in the seats than Riverfront Stadium.

    http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/A...Attendance.htm

    If it happened once, it can happen again.

    The good people of Cincinnati have shown over and over again that they will not support crappy baseball teams, but if you put a great product on the field, they will come in droves.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    In terms of dollars I couldn't begin to guess.

    But in general, I'd say there is much more revenue that can be earned by the Reds orginization. The affilate system was dismantled by Marge and several "fringe" markets have been ignored for years now. There's one source of additional revenues. I'd love to see them agressive persue markets like Columbus, Indy, Nashville, Charleston, etc again.

    The abuse and neglect of the franchise since the 1980's has resulted in the Reds being just one of a myrid of entertainment choices instead of a premier entertainment destination that draws people both to the ballpark and to the surrounding area to spend money.

    As BCast and Kriv improve the team and agressivley market their product, I don't think its unreasonable to expect an increase in revenews as people choose the Reds over Kings Island, movies and golf for entertainment.

    So while I couldn't begin to guess at a $$$ amount, there is much more revenue to be had if they just run the orginization well, let alone with any degree of excellence.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 09-18-2006 at 04:52 PM.
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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    When you consider the surrounding Metropolitian areas, I believe Cincy actually has a larger pool of potential fans than St Louis does. I remember that from similiar discussions we've had about this.

    St Louis reinvested the money McGwire generated into building a powerhouse. Too bad Lindner blew similiar opportunities twice.. He had opportunities with Jr drawing almost 2.6 million fans in 2000. He had another opportunity when the GAB opened.

    The 2000 attendence figures are proof to me that the fans will come if you give them a reason to. That 1999 season helped sell a lot of those tickets (in addition to Jr).
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    Could we ever get to the level of a St. Louis in terms of tickets/merchandise/tv dollars???
    Sure. The difference between Cardinal revenue and the Reds revenue right now is the difference between John Allen running the team to not lose money and Walt Jocketty trying to win. Walt Jocketty invested in Mark McGuire. John Allen tried to give us $1 hot dogs. Give the reds a division winning team and a history of 6 straight winning seasons, four division titles in 6 years and a series appearance two years ago...and folks would flock to the ballpark.

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    I've said it before, the Reds are one of the few teams in MLB that could have enough content to support an all-Reds cable channel.

    The history of the Reds, you could do specials a la SportsCentury for who knows how many players... replay great games from the past... reality shows about the team (edited of course, just bring the fans closer to the team.)

    It would take a big cash infusion to get it off the ground, but it would ultimately be a success and huge cash cow, IMO.

    Give JB, Pete, Browning, whoever, weekly shows... a creative programmer could easily fill a schedule with rotating SportsCentury's, call-in shows, etc. etc.

    Heck, maybe even go in with the Bengals.

    An all Reds/Bengals regional cable channel? LOL, that'd be awesome. And even offer it as a subscription service for cable/satellite customers nationwide since the Reds have such a diffuse fanbase.
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    St Louis reinvested the money McGwire generated into building a powerhouse. Too bad Lindner blew similiar opportunities twice.. He had opportunities with Jr drawing almost 2.6 million fans in 2000. He had another opportunity when the GAB opened.
    That Reds year was a blip on the screen compared to the draw the Cardinals had leading up to McGwire, between the strike seasons in 81 and 94 the Cardinals topped 2 million every year, 3 million twice. In that span the Reds competed only once with the attendance figures the Cards were gathering, and that was 1990-1993 when the Reds topped 2.3 every season, when Marge was the owner.

    Sadly it was all for naught, since the Reds fans stayed away after the Reds downspinned in 1996 and haven't touched what teh Cardinals have done sinc ethat season. Since then the Cards have had a run of seasons above. 2.7 every year, seven times above 3 million. Outdrawing the Reds by 600K in 2000, which if that is the Reds bar then they best jump harder and more often to even sneak into the realm of where the the Cardinals are.

  9. #8
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Well, for the decade of the 1970's only one other venue, Dodger Stadium, put more folks in the seats than Riverfront Stadium.

    http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/A...Attendance.htm

    If it happened once, it can happen again.

    The good people of Cincinnati have shown over and over again that they will not support crappy baseball teams, but if you put a great product on the field, they will come in droves.
    The problem with that theory is that back in the 70s the Reds had a 55,000 seat stadium. Now it's only 42,000. The absolute maximum the Reds can draw is around 3.2M. That's if they sell out every game. 3.2M would be wonderful but a lot of teams draw more. 3.2M is a fantasy. It's a pipe dream. It'll never happen. Maybe they can draw 3M one year. But that would mean they would have to sell out almost every time. Not a large margin for error there. That's an average of 37K per night. That's on nights where it's 35 degrees out. That's on days where it's close to 100. That's on Friday nights in August and September when high school football is going on. That's Wednesday days and evenings against Milwaukee and Pittsburgh. It's possible but not very probable.

    We talk about how well the BRM teams drew. But their best teams only drew 2.6M. Now back then they counted tickets sold and not butts in the seats so maybe they drew more than 2.6M. How much more, I don't know. But there were days and nights where they only drew 5K or 10K to a game. Probably against teams like Atlanta in April. But they could make up for that by drawing 45-50K for a Dodgers series or against the Phillies. They don't have the luxury of a 55K seat stadium to make up for only drawing 15K against the Padres. Best the Reds can hope for - attendance wise - is around 2.6M.
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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    I enjoyed the responses, but let me rephrase just a bit cause I don't think I got my question across.

    Assuming an average owner in regards to opening up the wallet, could Cincy ever fall into the Houston,SF,Atlanta,StL,Detroit payroll class of teams, i.e. this year 92-82 million, although that dollar amount is sure to be higher in the future????

  11. #10
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: What is Cincinnati's maximum potential...

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    When you consider the surrounding Metropolitian areas, I believe Cincy actually has a larger pool of potential fans than St Louis does. I remember that from similiar discussions we've had about this.

    St Louis reinvested the money McGwire generated into building a powerhouse. Too bad Lindner blew similiar opportunities twice.. He had opportunities with Jr drawing almost 2.6 million fans in 2000. He had another opportunity when the GAB opened.

    The 2000 attendence figures are proof to me that the fans will come if you give them a reason to. That 1999 season helped sell a lot of those tickets (in addition to Jr).
    Thankfully, Griffey doesn't have to answer the questions that McGuire has and will face. The Cardinals will have that over their head for quite sometime.
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