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Thread: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

  1. #1
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    There has been a lot of talk latley how the Reds aren't really the first baseball team, and in fact it's the Red Sox....

    This contradicts everything I knew and respected growing up.

    Which is true/false/real?!?!?
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  3. #2
    Member 919191's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    The Cincinnati club was the first openly paid team, but the very first----I don't know- who would they have played?
    I've been to dinner at Jimmy Buffet's house, and I've eaten it at a homeless shelter. And there's great joy and harrowing terror to be found in both places.
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  4. #3
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Some folks say that the first professional team is the one that moved to Boston and eventually became the Atlanta Braves.

    Also, Joe Nuxhall wasn't the youngest player and Jackie Robinson wasn't the first black to play major league baseball.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Some folks say that the first professional team is the one that moved to Boston and eventually became the Atlanta Braves.

    Also, Joe Nuxhall wasn't the youngest player and Jackie Robinson wasn't the first black to play major league baseball.
    Where does this leave things with Santa Claus?

    I knew the thing about Jackie Robinson (he's modern era). In fact my daughter and I were just talking about this last night. She works at the Freedom Center and they have that display now on the reintegration of professional football.

    And I've always understood that the Red Stockings took off for Boston, although I've never understood that to be the Braves franchise - I think I always just assumed it was still the Red Sox.

    I'm guessing there was a player younger than Nuxie pre-modern era.

  6. #5
    Baseball card addict MrCinatit's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    I think someone got "Red Stockings" and "Red Sox" confused.

  7. #6
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    revisionist history run amuck...

  8. #7
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Quote Originally Posted by redsrule2500 View Post
    There has been a lot of talk latley how the Reds aren't really the first baseball team, and in fact it's the Red Sox....

    This contradicts everything I knew and respected growing up.

    Which is true/false/real?!?!?
    Do you have a link to this "talk?"

    Never heard this. I'll await Sandy, Westofyou, and our other resident historians to weigh in.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  9. #8
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Do you have a link to this "talk?"

    Never heard this. I'll await Sandy, Westofyou, and our other resident historians to weigh in.
    The fact is that the first fully and openly professional team was here in Cincinnati, the Red Stockings. I believe they played here for two seasons (1869 and 1870) and perhaps one more and then moved their base to Boston. Whether that became the Braves or the Red Sox franchise, I'm not sure, but I do think the Braves are considered to be the oldest continually operating franchise in professional baseball. I know I've seen that addressed here.

    It is a fact that there were black players in the major leagues prior to Jackie Robinson, with Moses and Welday Walker playing for Toledo in 1884 (see http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ed...fleetwood.htm), with a I think Moses being recognized as the last until Robinson broke the color line in the late 40's.

    Again, I'm not sure about the Nuxhall thing, although I suspect there's someone in the pre-modern era that might have been younger. But they generally divide baseball history by pre-modern and modern (with modern starting circa 1902).

  10. #9
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Dedicated Reds Fans, please do not read the following text.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Reds

    The original Cincinnati Red Stockings, baseball's first openly all-professional team, were founded in 1866, turning professional in 1869. The Red Stockings won 130 games in 1869 & 1870, before the Brooklyn Atlantics defeated them. Star players were brothers Harry and George Wright, Fred Waterman, and pitcher Asa Brainard.

    The current Cincinnati Reds have no direct descent from this team, but the shared city and name have been a subject of much confusion. The current club claims the history of the original as its own, both on its website and by selling merchandise bearing the year "1869" as its year of inception.[1] (It also claims the 1876-1880 club history.)

    The Red Stockings disbanded after the 1870 season, and Harry Wright moved to Boston along with his brother and two other teammates to found the Boston Red Stockings, now known as the Atlanta Braves. A new Cincinnati Red Stockings team became a charter member of the National League in 1876. The team was expelled from the league after the 1880 season, in part for violating league rules by serving beer to fans at games.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  11. #10
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Braves are the oldest, and then the Cubs, then the Reds and Cardinals, Then the Pirates and Phillies and Giants then the Dodgers.

  12. #11
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Dedicated Reds Fans, please do not read the following text.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Reds
    This is the hazard of Wikipedia in that anyone can write an entry, no matter how accurate. While technically correct, all of baseball recognizes Cincinnati as the birthplace of professional baseball. I wonder if Greg Rhodes has seen this. Isn't he more or less the staff historian. Maybe I'll email him and perhaps he can put together a more accurate correction.

  13. #12
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post

    I'm guessing there was a player younger than Nuxie pre-modern era.
    Code:
    FRED CHAPMAN
    
    GIVEN NAME: Frederick Joseph Chapman
    BORN: 11/24/1872  Little Cooley, Pennsylvania  DIED: 12/14/1957  Union City, Pennsylvania
    BAT: R  THROW: R  HEIGHT: 5'8"  WEIGHT: 165  MLB DEBUT: 7/22/1887
    
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
    1887 Athletics    14   0   0          1   1   1   0   0    5      8    6    4    2    4   7.20   -2 
         TOTALS            0   0          1   1   1   0   0    5      8    6    4    2    4   7.20   -2 
         LG AVERAGE        0   0  .500            1   0        5      6    4    2    2    2   4.29    0 
    
    YEAR TEAM          HR  H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO WP  IBB HBP BFP   BK  NW  NL
    1887 Athletics      0 14.40 18.00  7.20  3.60  2.00   0   0   0   0    24  0   0   0 
         TOTALS         0 14.40 18.00  7.20  3.60  2.00   0   0   0   0    24  0   0   0 
         LG AVERAGE     0 10.06 13.61  2.91  3.15  0.93   0   0   0   0    22  0 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    MIKE KILROY
    
    GIVEN NAME: Michael Joseph Kilroy
    BORN: 11/4/1872  Philadelphia, Pennsylvania  DIED: 10/2/1960  Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    BAT: R  THROW: R  HEIGHT: 5'11"  WEIGHT: 180  MLB DEBUT: 9/1/1888
    
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT     
    1888 Orioles      15   0   1  .000

  14. #13
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    This is the hazard of Wikipedia in that anyone can write an entry, no matter how accurate. While technically correct, all of baseball recognizes Cincinnati as the birthplace of professional baseball. I wonder if Erardi has seen this. Isn't he more or less the staff historian. Maybe I'll email him and perhaps he can put together a more accurate correction.
    Sure he's seen it. The Reds owner decided that business wasn't good enough anymore so the disbanded the team, Harry and George Wright took a few of the boys to Boston to continue their game in the more compettive east.

    They were known as the Red Stockings, like the Reds.

    One of the reasons so many AL teams have old NL names (White Sox, Red Sox, Browns, Athletics) was to get fans nostelgic for the game, which had taken a downturn publically in the 1890's

  15. #14
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    all of baseball recognizes Cincinnati as the birthplace of professional baseball.
    "Team" baseball, individuals were getting paid in Brooklyn prior to the Reds, who "bought" their team in an attempt to bring attention and luster to Cincinnati.

    Looks like it worked

  16. #15
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Reds not oldest pro baseball team??

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    Where does this leave things with Santa Claus?


    Thanks for the laugh, redsmetz! I'm not sure what you're implying, however. I saw him last December at Cincinnati Mills, so he's alive and well, and expected back in these parts sometime in November.

    (Sorry to be off-topic.)

    Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.


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