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Thread: BA Minor League All-Star Team

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    BA Minor League All-Star Team

    They give us some love. Three Reds made it. It's free content.



    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...es/262497.html

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    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    So what is the consensus timetable on when Bruce might make his reds debut? Will he follow a homer like rise or are OF more incremental?
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

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    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    Quote Originally Posted by LincolnparkRed View Post
    So what is the consensus timetable on when Bruce might make his reds debut? Will he follow a homer like rise or are OF more incremental?
    I would think that Bruce would start the year in High A next year and probably be promoted (if continuing to play well) to AA by the end of next year (2007). In 2008, I'd guess that he'd start the year in AA and potentially move up to AAA around mid year (again, if playing well and no injuries). He could be a potential Sept call up in 2008. In 2009, I expect him to be a starting OF on the Reds.
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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    With a guy like Bruce, his play makes the call. He blows up in 2008 like Dunn did in 2001, you bring him up.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    Or we could trade him for Coco Crisp. Proven veteren you know.
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    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    I'm curious, what is the failure rate of top offensive prospects (who have actually accomplished something in the minors -- not just pure hype monsters) relative to top pitching prospects. It seems like there just aren't that many great offensive guys who fall flat, particularly ones ahead of the curve.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    Pitchers flop a lot more often than hitters. At first thought thats what comes to mind. I dont have much to do this evening, I will go over the last 10 years of BA top 100 prospects and do the top 10 hitters and top 10 pitchers from every draft and see what I can come up with.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'm curious, what is the failure rate of top offensive prospects (who have actually accomplished something in the minors -- not just pure hype monsters) relative to top pitching prospects. It seems like there just aren't that many great offensive guys who fall flat, particularly ones ahead of the curve.
    Here is the lists
    Code:
    2005 
    Hitters           Pitchers 
    Joe Mauer         1 Felix Hernandez 
    Delmon Young      2 Scott Kazmir 
    Ian Stewart       3 Matt Cain 
    Joel Guzman       4 Adam Miller 
    Casey Kotchman    5 Chad Billingsley 
    Rickie Weeks      6 Jeff Niemann 
    Andy Marte        7 Jeff Francis 
    Hanley Ramirez    8 Jose Capellan 
    Lastings Milledge 9 Mike Hinckley 
    Dallas McPherson 10 Edwin Jackson 
    
    2004
    
    Hitters          Pitchers 
    Joe Mauer        1 Edwin Jackson 
    BJ Upton         2 Greg Miller 
    Delmon Young     3 Scott Kazmir 
    Rickie Weeks     4 Adam Loewen 
    Alexis Rios      5 Zack Greinke 
    Kazou Matsui     6 Cole Hamels 
    Grady Sizemore   7 Dustin McGowan 
    Prince Fielder   8 Gavin Floyd 
    Andy Marte       9 Chin-Hui Tsao 
    Casey Kotchman   10 Angel Guzman 
    
    2003
    
    Hitters          Pitchers  
    Mark Teixeira    1 Jesse Foppert 
    Rocco Baldelli   2 Jose Contreras 
    Jose Reyes       3 Gavin Floyd 
    Joe Mauer        4 Francisco Rodriguez 
    Brandon Phillips 5 Scott Kazmir 
    Hideki Matsui    6 Adam Waitwrights 
    Miguel Cabrera   7 Jeremy Bonderman 
    Casey Kotchman   8 John Vanbenschoten 
    Justin Morneau   9 Sean Burnett 
    Jason Stokes     10 Rafael Soriano 
    
    2002
    
    Hitters         Pitchers 
    Hank Blalock    1 Josh Beckett 
    Sean Burroughs  2 Mark Prior 
    Carlos Pena     3 Juan Cruz 
    Joe Mauer       4 Ryan Anderson 
    Wilson Betemit  5 Dennis Tankersley 
    Drew Henson     6 Nick Neugebauer 
    Mark Teixeira   7 Jerome Williams 
    Austin Kearns   8 Jon Rauch 
    Joe Borchard    9 Carlos Hernandez 
    Nick Johnson    10 Ty Howington 
    
    2001
    
    Hitters         Pitchers 
    Josh Hamilton   1 Josh Beckett 
    Corey Patterson 2 Jon Rauch 
    Sean Burroughs  3 Ben Sheets 
    Ichiro Suzuki   4 CC Sabathia 
    Nick Johnson    5 Ryan Anderson 
    Carlos Pena     6 Roy Oswalt 
    Vernon Wells    7 Chin-Hui Tsao 
    Drew Henson     8 Juan Cruz 
    Antonio Perez   9 Jerome Williams 
    Alex Escobar    10 Bobby Bradley 
    
    2000
    
    Hitters         Pitchers
    Pat Burrell     1 Rick Ankiel 
    Corey Patterson 2 Ryan Anderson 
    Vernon Wells    3 John Patterson 
    Nick Johnson    4 Mark Mulder 
    Ruben Mateo     5 Kip Wells 
    Sean Burroughs  6 Matt Riley 
    Rafael Furcal   7 Josh Beckett 
    Dee Brown       8 AJ Burnett 
    Josh Hamilton   9 Brad Penny 
    Alfonso Soriano 10 Wilfredo Rodriguez 
    
    1999
    
    Hitters         Pitchers 
    JD Drew         1 Rick Ankiel 
    Eric Chavez     2 Bruce Chen 
    Michael Barrett 3 Brad Penny 
    Pablo Ozuna     4 Ryan Anderson 
    Ruben Mateo     5 Matt Clement 
    Alex Escobar    6 Roy Halladay 
    Lance Berkman   7 John Patterson 
    Carlos Beltran  8 Matt Riley 
    Corey Patterson 9 AJ Burnerr 
    Alex Gonzalez   10 Braden Looper 
    
    1998
    
    Hitters         Pitchers
    Ben Grieve      1 Kerry Wood 
    Paul Konerko    2 Matt White 
    Adrian Beltre   3 Kris Benson 
    Aramis Ramirez  4 Carl Pavano 
    Travis Lee      5 Matt Clement 
    Miguel Tejada   6 Rick Ankiel 
    Todd Helton     7 Brian Rose 
    Mark Kotsay     8 Ryan Anderson 
    Chad Hermansen  9 Matt Anderson 
    Brad Fulmer     10 Eric Milton 
    
    1997
    
    Hitters           Pitchers
    Andruw Jones      1 Kerry Wood 
    Vladimir Guerrero 2 Matt White 
    Travis Lee        3 Kris Benson 
    Migeul Tejada     4 Bartolo Colon 
    Todd Walker       5 Carl Pavano 
    Ruben Rivera      6 Jaret Wright 
    Nomar Garciaparra 7 Roy Halladay 
    Paul Konerko      8 Matt Morris 
    Jose Cruz Jr      9 Chris Carpenter 
    Scott Rolen       10 Braden Looper 
    
    1996
    
    Hitters           Pitchers 
    Andruw Jones      1 Paul Wilson 
    Ruben Rivera      2 Alan Benes 
    Daren Erstad      3 Livan Hernandez 
    Derek Jeter       4 Jason Schmidt 
    Karim Garcia      5 Matt Drews 
    Vladimir Guerrero 6 Billy Wagner 
    Ben Davis         7 Bartolo Colon 
    Derrick Gibson    8 Kerry Wood 
    Rey Ordonez       9 Chan Ho Park 
    Richard Hildalgo  10 Rocky Coppinger
    There are a lot more pitchers that are in the "never heard of him" or "that guy was a top prospect in baseball?" than there are hitters. Each group has its hits and misses, but the hitters seem a lot more hit than pitchers.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    Hmm... the hitters do VERY well... almost all of them are quality MLB players. About half of the pitchers seem to pan out.

    Also, I didn't realize Votto was quick (24 steals)... I was thinking he was a big bulky power hitter for some reason.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    This is significant recognition. 3 players out of 14 total, with all three at positions where the Reds could use an upgrade in the next two years. Big improvement from last year.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSelig View Post
    Hmm... the hitters do VERY well... almost all of them are quality MLB players. About half of the pitchers seem to pan out.

    Also, I didn't realize Votto was quick (24 steals)... I was thinking he was a big bulky power hitter for some reason.
    Joey hired aa personal trainer this past offseason to help him get in better shape and to help him run faster. It payed off bigtime for him.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    The Reds sure have a lot of players on this list, don't they?

    How weird is that direct quote from Baseball America about the Cincinnati Reds? Makes me think 2009 or 2010 could be fun.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  14. #13
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    My understanding is that what we really lack is depth. Sure, now we've got a few guys at the top, but particularly offensively, it doesn't seem like we have much mid-level talent --- Denorfia types who play pretty well but aren't considered high ceiling guys. I'm thinking of a Nick Punto who will never be an all-star but is better than replacement and keeps you from spending a million bucks on Juan Castro...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    My understanding is that what we really lack is depth. Sure, now we've got a few guys at the top, but particularly offensively, it doesn't seem like we have much mid-level talent --- Denorfia types who play pretty well but aren't considered high ceiling guys. I'm thinking of a Nick Punto who will never be an all-star but is better than replacement and keeps you from spending a million bucks on Juan Castro...
    I don't buy it. When it comes to finding players like Punto, I think it's really a matter of organizational will -- it takes some guts to go with low-pick guys who have relatively pedestrian minor league numbers (take a look at Punto's sometime if you want to be underwhelmed). Who's to say that guys like Drew Anderson, Brendan Harris, Mike Griffin and Justin Turner (guys like Valaika and Loo come more highly touted) can't turn into useful utility infielders in the Punto mold?

    And forget about BA assessments when it comes to "depth" -- after decades of reading that publication, it's my opinion that they trot out an evaluation about depth only to prop up whatever grade they want to assign to an organization (the grade being based primarily on the top prospects plus the chumminess factor -- BA fawns on some orgs as a matter of habit, for whatever reason). Just my opinion...
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: BA Minor League All-Star Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    I would think that Bruce would start the year in High A next year and probably be promoted (if continuing to play well) to AA by the end of next year (2007). In 2008, I'd guess that he'd start the year in AA and potentially move up to AAA around mid year (again, if playing well and no injuries). He could be a potential Sept call up in 2008. In 2009, I expect him to be a starting OF on the Reds.
    I fully expect Bruce to be fast-tracked, so I'd challenge him and bump him up to AA next year. I don't know that spending part of the year in High-A next year will really do him all that much good. If he struggles at Chattanooga then you send him to High-A and let him get things together for a month or so and then bring him right back. If he continues to develop as he has, I could see a September call-up next year if the Reds aren't in the playoff picture and a full-time job for 2007. It's probably overly optimistic, but I just get the feeling that this organization is planning on Bruce moving up fast now that he's shown he's legit.
    "It's still a long way to the top if we want to rock'n'roll, but at least they dumped the tuba player."
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