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Thread: 1964

  1. #31
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The Cardinals certainly seem to be pulling a '64 Phillies, but the NL that year had some real good teams in it.

    This NL Central might as well be the 1973 NL East. If people are looking for a "this would make up for that" scenario then rather than getting revenge for 1964, I'd suggest the opportunity would be to avenge the '73 Mets beating a vastly superior and more deserving Reds club. I'd say that's where the Reds' real karma rebound lies.
    Feels more like '64 to me with the three team race and one of them in free fall. But your point is well taken. This time (in contrast to '73) the Reds would be the .500 team sneaking in to play the dominant team (Mets).

    If the Reds make the playoffs, we can happily debate this in October.

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  3. #32
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715 View Post
    Tsitouris showed up that day with his car completely packed and ready to drive home after the game.If I'd been Sisler I would have greeted him with 5 knuckles and he'd been on his way home before the game started.
    Could you imagine him doing that and Billy Martin being the Reds manager.
    He also drew the short straw when Maloney refused to take the ball.

  4. #33
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    You mean they used to play 18 innings in one day, on purpose? And they didn't charge the fans extra? That can't be true.
    It was a glorious day at the park. I went to one when I was still single, came about 1:00 after mass and they played into the evening. Beautiful sun shiny summer day at the old ball orchard.

  5. #34
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    Re: 1964

    In '64, the Phils and Reds only played two games that last weekend, Friday nite and Sunday afternoon. Anyone remember the reason for that kinda whacky scheduling; or was it something that just turned oiut that way?

  6. #35
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    He also drew the short straw when Maloney refused to take the ball.
    In his book "Pennant Races: Baseball At Its Best", Dave Anderson made no mention of Maloney refusing to start the final game of the 1964 season. He wrote at page 283 that Reds manager Dick Sisler told Reds pitching coach Jim Turner that he "like[d] Tsitouris" because Maloney had pitched 11 innings three nights earlier in a 1-0 16 inning loss, while Tsitouris was more rested. Maloney also had chronic shoulder problems. Sisler said: "Tsitouris has the rest, he has that screwball. If it goes good, fine. If it doesn't, I'll take the blame. I'd rather take the blame than have Maloney hurt his arm."
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  7. #36
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    Re: 1964

    I should add that it is possible that Dave Anderson, whose book was published 30 years after the 1964 season, simply got his facts wrong. It is also possible that his version of the events was incomplete. Perhaps Sisler asked Maloney how he felt, Maloney told Sisler that his arm hurt, and Sisler then made the decision to start Tsitouris. Anderson wouldn't be the first, or last, reporter to be wrong. However, his book doesn't support the assertion that Maloney refused to pitch.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  8. #37
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    In his book "Pennant Races: Baseball At Its Best", Dave Anderson made no mention of Maloney refusing to start the final game of the 1964 season. He wrote at page 283 that Reds manager Dick Sisler told Reds pitching coach Jim Turner that he "like[d] Tsitouris" because Maloney had pitched 11 innings three nights earlier in a 1-0 16 inning loss, while Tsitouris was more rested. Maloney also had chronic shoulder problems. Sisler said: "Tsitouris has the rest, he has that screwball. If it goes good, fine. If it doesn't, I'll take the blame. I'd rather take the blame than have Maloney hurt his arm."
    In "We Played the Game" Jim O'Tolle recants the story as such,

    "Maloney had pitched 3 days before, but you couldn't talk him into pitching that game, he wanted to go in the playoff. So we flipped a coin and John Tsitouris pitched." Dick Sisler had no idea what to do that last week, if Hutch was healthy Cardenes ass would have been on the bench, he knew how to handle Cardenes."
    Apparently Cardenes was upset that the team didn't back him up enough aafter brushback incident he had with the Phillies. So upset that he sulked on the field and "lollygagged" on a popup, that fell in.

    After the game O'Toole and him had words and Leo went after O'Toole with a ice pick.

  9. #38
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post



    Apparently Cardenes was upset that the team didn't back him up enough aafter brushback incident he had with the Phillies. So upset that he sulked on the field and "lollygagged" on a popup, that fell in.

    After the game O'Toole and him had words and Leo went after O'Toole with a ice pick.
    I once read an article about Leo Cardenas after he was traded to the Twins wherein Cardenas said something to the effect that he thought that Pete Rose, who was playing secondbase, should have caught the popup.
    Dave Anderson's book does state that Sisler was saving Maloney for the playoff game.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  10. #39
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    I once read an article about Leo Cardenas after he was traded to the Twins wherein Cardenas said something to the effect that he thought that Pete Rose, who was playing secondbase, should have caught the popup.
    Dave Anderson's book does state that Sisler was saving Maloney for the playoff game.
    Yeah, it could go either way... O'Toole is/was a cocky guy, I get the sense from the book that he is full of opinions (as he should be)

  11. #40
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    As good as Arroyo and Harang have been, the Reds starters do not favorably compare to the 1973 Mets trio of Seaver, Matlack and Koosman, nor do the 2006 Reds have a McGraw in the bullpen. The Mets pitching totally shut down the Reds hitters in the 1973 NLCS, with the exception of Pete Rose.
    Well I'd argue the Reds aren't reprising the role of the Mets in this little drama. That would be the Astros, who've been white-hot of late. The Reds are more like the '73 Expos, who surprised a lot of people by hanging around, but ultimately succombed to their sub-.500 DNA.
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  12. #41
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Well I'd argue the Reds aren't reprising the role of the Mets in this little drama. That would be the Astros, who've been white-hot of late. The Reds are more like the '73 Expos, who surprised a lot of people by hanging around, but ultimately succombed to their sub-.500 DNA.
    Yeah, Clemens-Pettite-Oswalt could do a pretty good imitation of Seaver-Koosman-Matlack.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #42
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    Re: 1964

    I imagine a Houston/San Diego NLCS would rule, if it happens. Two pitching-heavy teams with secretly tough offenses.

    (Plus, my preseason MVP pick Lance Berkman is really fun to watch, and will probably deliver Houston a ring sooner than later.)

    Oh, and he definitely deserves the MVP (for willing his dead team to a second postseason berth in consecutive years).

  14. #43
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I imagine a Houston/San Diego NLCS would rule, if it happens. Two pitching-heavy teams with secretly tough offenses.
    The gnashing of teeth and wailing you hear is from Fox.
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  15. #44
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I imagine a Houston/San Diego NLCS would rule, if it happens. Two pitching-heavy teams with secretly tough offenses.
    I think the Padres could be a dark horse. They've impressed me through the end of the season -- a better team than I thought, and a better team than last year.

    Despite my frustration with the Reds, I'd kind of like to see an NL team barrell all the way through the playoffs and win the World Series, just to shut everybody up about the difference in the leagues (which exists, but I'm tired of hearing about it). Unless it's the Astros. Or the Cardinals. And unless they're playing the Yankees.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  16. #45
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    Re: 1964

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    I think the Padres could be a dark horse. They've impressed me through the end of the season -- a better team than I thought, and a better team than last year.

    Despite my frustration with the Reds, I'd kind of like to see an NL team barrell all the way through the playoffs and win the World Series, just to shut everybody up about the difference in the leagues (which exists, but I'm tired of hearing about it). Unless it's the Astros. Or the Cardinals. And unless they're playing the Yankees.
    Yeah, give the Pads a couple of games in their yard and they could have the pitching to stop anyone.

    I love it when the experts are wrong. Just like in 1990 when no one said the Reds had a chance.
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