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Thread: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

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    Moderator Gallen5862's Avatar
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    Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...7/c1685863.jsp
    Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero
    09/27/2006 11:01 PM ET
    By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

    MIAMI -- Pete Rose's exile from baseball for gambling has been a divisive hot-button issue among fans for almost two decades.
    But a majority of Reds fans this summer have answered one big debate by selecting Rose as the greatest player from baseball's oldest professional franchise.

    The game's all-time hits leader, Rose was named winner of the Reds' Hometown Heroes Award, presented by DHL. On Wednesday, his selection was announced as part of a 10-player group featured during the second show of a three-part series that aired on ESPN.

    Each of the 30 Major League clubs had a special ballot of five players. From July 18 through Sept. 17, nearly 17 million votes were cast at ballparks, online at MLB.com and at DHL shipping centers.

    Besides Rose, baseball greats Johnny Bench, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan and Frank Robinson were part of the Reds' ballot.

    A 17-time All-Star, Rose collected 4,256 hits during a 24-season career that spanned from 1963-86. The Cincinnati native had two tours with his hometown team -- from 1963-78 and from 1984-86 when he returned as the player-manager.

    On Sept. 11, 1985, Rose passed Ty Cobb as the all-time "hit king," when he notched hit No. 4,192 off the Padres' Eric Show at Riverfront Stadium.

    Affectionately known as "Charlie Hustle" for his tenacious, all-out effort on the field, Rose was the 1963 National League Rookie of the Year, the 1973 NL Most Valuable Player and a two-time Gold Glove winner. He's also the Major League all-time leader with 3,562 games played.

    In 1989, Rose agreed to a lifetime ban from the game issued by then-Commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti for betting on baseball. Rose, now 65, remains ineligible for selection to the Hall of Fame.

    This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    I sat here and watched this Phillies and Nationals game waiting for it to end so i could catch it on ESPN and now its not coming on. Did i miss something or did they play it on another channel? It was supposed to come on ESPN at 10 tonight but the Phi. game went into extra innings.

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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Pete Rose was a great player for the Reds, and he's probably among the top 30-40 players in the history of the game.

    But Frank Robinson, Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench were all greater players than Rose was.
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Pete Rose was a great player for the Reds, and he's probably among the top 30-40 players in the history of the game.

    But Frank Robinson, Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench were all greater players than Rose was.
    Yet the award is Hometown Hero, not greatest player. Pete Rose represents Cincinnati. Joe Morgan was only here for 7 years, and Johnny Bench made the mistake of daring to challenge Pete, so he wasn't going to win. I'm not a Pete Rose apologist, but this vote was never in doubt.

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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23 View Post
    Yet the award is Hometown Hero, not greatest player. Pete Rose represents Cincinnati. Joe Morgan was only here for 7 years, and Johnny Bench made the mistake of daring to challenge Pete, so he wasn't going to win. I'm not a Pete Rose apologist, but this vote was never in doubt.
    Sorry, but heroes don't commit baseball's worst crime, and Rose did commit baseball's worst crime.

    Morgan, Robinson and Bench were all greater players than Rose throughout their careers. Morgan is arguably the greatest second baseman ever, and Bench is arguably the greatest catcher ever. If the debate is centered around how much of a career was spent in a Reds uniform, then Bench still trumps Rose because Bench's entire career was in a Reds uniform.

    It'll be interesting to see who the Chicago White Sox vote as their Hometown Hero, and I'm betting (no pun intended) that it isn't Joe Jackson.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Sorry, but heroes don't commit baseball's worst crime, and Rose did commit baseball's worst crime.

    Morgan, Robinson and Bench were all greater players than Rose throughout their careers. Morgan is arguably the greatest second baseman ever, and Bench is arguably the greatest catcher ever. If the debate is centered around how much of a career was spent in a Reds uniform, then Bench still trumps Rose because Bench's entire career was in a Reds uniform.

    It'll be interesting to see who the Chicago White Sox vote as their Hometown Hero, and I'm betting (no pun intended) that it isn't Joe Jackson.
    Obviously, the vote is a shot across the bow at MLB and Bud Selig. If MLB didn't wan't the controversey, they'd have not included Roseon the ballot. BTW...I voted for Johnny Bench.

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    I also voted for Bench.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaknb8k View Post
    I sat here and watched this Phillies and Nationals game waiting for it to end so i could catch it on ESPN and now its not coming on. Did i miss something or did they play it on another channel? It was supposed to come on ESPN at 10 tonight but the Phi. game went into extra innings.
    I did the same exact thing as you and nothing. The announcers during the game nor the little (and sometimes annoying) scroll thing at the bottom of the screen said nothing about this. I would think they would have at least mentioned it or said they were moving the time or whatever they are doing with it, even cancelling it considering it was made into somewhat of a big deal like it was and it is being stretch over three nights like it is. I am still just very disappointed in having to sit through almost half a game like that only to not get to watch the Heroes program. I caught last night's and thought it was actually pretty good and will watch tomorrow (hopefully the same thing doesn't occur) as well. Maybe they are going to play it after Sportscenter airs or maybe they will play it before tomorrow evening's timeslot? Or we could get lucky and they could play all three simultaneously like on Saturday or something....sorry for being longwinded but I just a little tad bit frustrated with the whole thing right now!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Sorry, but heroes don't commit baseball's worst crime, and Rose did commit baseball's worst crime.

    Morgan, Robinson and Bench were all greater players than Rose throughout their careers. Morgan is arguably the greatest second baseman ever, and Bench is arguably the greatest catcher ever. If the debate is centered around how much of a career was spent in a Reds uniform, then Bench still trumps Rose because Bench's entire career was in a Reds uniform.

    It'll be interesting to see who the Chicago White Sox vote as their Hometown Hero, and I'm betting (no pun intended) that it isn't Joe Jackson.
    Hogwash. By what standard are these players better than Rose? I know you only care about statistics, but I care about a whole hell of a lot more. Having an opinion is one thing, to clearly state they are better is rich.

    He's a hero to me for how he played the game. I couldn't care less about the idiocy of the "baseball's worst crime."

    There is nothing worse than the HGH and steroid users of today. They are not only ruining the integrity of the game, they are a horrible influence on every young athlete.
    Last edited by Cedric; 09-28-2006 at 12:35 AM.
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Hogwash. By what standard are these players better than Rose? I know you only care about statistics, but I care about a whole hell of a lot more. Having an opinion is one thing, to clearly state they are better is rich.

    He's a hero to me for how he played the game. I couldn't care less about the idiocy of the "baseball's worst crime."

    There is nothing worse than the HGH and steroid users of today. They are not only ruining the integrity of the game, they are a horrible influence on every young athlete.

    Definately agree. Purposely trying to change the outcome of a game through cheating is far worse than betting on an the outcome of a game IMO. Yes, steroids are used to change the outcome. Betting did not make Rose a better player/manager, just a worse person. There is no proof that Rose threw a game or anything of that nature, and quite honestly, Rose strikes me as the kind of player that would not let money get in the way of his winning. Baseball's worst crime is not betting, baseball's worst crime is a player using substances to give him abilities that he would not otherwise achieve so he can change the outcome of a game. When your actions give you an unfair edge over another player who plays the game honestly, that is when the integrity of the game is truly attacked.

    You still can't tell me that betting is any worse than drug abuse or steroids. Like drugs, addiction to gambling is in a lot of ways a disease. Sure it shouldn't have happened in the first place, he made a bad decision. We all make mistakes sometimes. His mistake turned into an addiction. The guy needed help, not shunned from baseball. You lie to cover your addiction, and before you know it, you lose control and the situation grows beyond your control. It happens. Drug addicts get a second chance, why shouldn't gambling addicts.

    To this day, nobody has given what I believe to be a good enough excuse as to why Rose shouldn't at least be in the Hall of Fame. Its always something like "He broke the Cardinal Rule of Baseball." My question is why is that "the Cardinal Rule of Baseball." Shouldn't the "Cardinal Rule" be something more like no player shall partake in illegal activities that can change the outcome of a game? Steroids are illegal along with fixing an event so that it benifits you finacially. Rose did neither.

    More over, the Hall of Fame isn't exactly filled with saints. A lot of them had their own character issues. Womanizers, Drug abusers, alcoholics, and so forth. Its the Baseball Hall of Fame, not the Hall of model citizens. If you base a players performance on his character, then you would have a very empty building in Cooperstown.

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    I am not in the least surprised by this vote.
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    There was a generation of Reds fans that grew up worshiping the way that Pete Rose played baseball. They still want to believe in what he did on the baseball field. The vote does not surprise me, either.
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    I voted for Bench because he had opportunties to leave Cincinnati and did not plus he was the greatest catcher to play the game.

    Rose was my second choice - but he was one of the first "true" Cincinnatians to play for the Reds (Sorry Herm Wehmeier) who became a star with his play and attitude. I can see why he won.
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Hogwash. By what standard are these players better than Rose? I know you only care about statistics, but I care about a whole hell of a lot more. Having an opinion is one thing, to clearly state they are better is rich.

    He's a hero to me for how he played the game. I couldn't care less about the idiocy of the "baseball's worst crime."

    There is nothing worse than the HGH and steroid users of today. They are not only ruining the integrity of the game, they are a horrible influence on every young athlete.
    Quote Originally Posted by SeeinRed
    Definately agree. Purposely trying to change the outcome of a game through cheating is far worse than betting on an the outcome of a game IMO. Yes, steroids are used to change the outcome. Betting did not make Rose a better player/manager, just a worse person. There is no proof that Rose threw a game or anything of that nature, and quite honestly, Rose strikes me as the kind of player that would not let money get in the way of his winning. Baseball's worst crime is not betting, baseball's worst crime is a player using substances to give him abilities that he would not otherwise achieve so he can change the outcome of a game. When your actions give you an unfair edge over another player who plays the game honestly, that is when the integrity of the game is truly attacked.

    You still can't tell me that betting is any worse than drug abuse or steroids. Like drugs, addiction to gambling is in a lot of ways a disease. Sure it shouldn't have happened in the first place, he made a bad decision. We all make mistakes sometimes. His mistake turned into an addiction. The guy needed help, not shunned from baseball. You lie to cover your addiction, and before you know it, you lose control and the situation grows beyond your control. It happens. Drug addicts get a second chance, why shouldn't gambling addicts.

    To this day, nobody has given what I believe to be a good enough excuse as to why Rose shouldn't at least be in the Hall of Fame. Its always something like "He broke the Cardinal Rule of Baseball." My question is why is that "the Cardinal Rule of Baseball." Shouldn't the "Cardinal Rule" be something more like no player shall partake in illegal activities that can change the outcome of a game? Steroids are illegal along with fixing an event so that it benifits you finacially. Rose did neither.

    More over, the Hall of Fame isn't exactly filled with saints. A lot of them had their own character issues. Womanizers, Drug abusers, alcoholics, and so forth. Its the Baseball Hall of Fame, not the Hall of model citizens. If you base a players performance on his character, then you would have a very empty building in Cooperstown.
    Oh boy, here we go again. If it isn't the assembling masses against Adam Dunn, it's the ignorant Pete Rose defense attorneys.

    The only reason Pete Rose is the record holder for most hits is because he played 23 years. He averaged 194 H/162. There's the secret to why Pete Rose has 4256. While Rose had a respectable .375 OBP for his career, and a career BA of .303, it doesn't change the fact his lifetime OPS is .784, which is very pedestrian. Rose was never even mentioned in the same breath of "best at his position", whereas Morgan and Bench are often mention in that same breath of "best at his position". Bench quite possibly could be the best catcher of all time, he's definitely put together a body of work to deserve such merit, but it's not all stat derived. With both Morgan and Bench, there are defensive metrics to consider as well. Pete Rose was never going to fool anyone with his defense, nor was he ever going to change the outcome of a game by good defense. Morgan and Bench both had the ability to positively impact the outcome of a ballgame with their defensive abilities.

    Maybe I'm too young to have been fed the Pete Rose hype, and subsequently gotten caught up in the hoopla, but while I believe he put together a marginal HOF bid on counting stats alone, he was not a complete player. He got on base largely due to BA, and had an adequate amount of career walks to bring his career OBP to a respectable .375. That's it. He had no power. Only 25% of his career hits were XBH, so there's his low career SLG. He wasn't the fleetest of foot either. 198 career SB vs. 149 career CS. Not good numbers.

    Am I trying to say Pete Rose wasn't a good player? No. Do I believe he should be in the HOF had he not committed the worst offense in baseball? Yes. Have we historically had better players on the Reds than Pete Rose? You betcha. Bench and Morgan are just two to top that list.

    As for the betting on baseball is worse than illegal substances argument, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, because where I'm sitting, degrading the integrity of such a great game is a far worse crime than ingesting supplements in an attempt to enhance performance.

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    a Red in Yankeetown elfmanvt07's Avatar
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    Re: Rose named Reds' Hometown Hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    He's a hero to me for how he played the game.
    That's why he's still my all time favorite ballplayer. Bud Selig thought this wouldn't be controversial. He just got a wake up call.


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