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Thread: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

  1. #16
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Narron out, Robinson in.

    Let's cling to this pipe dream!
    As much as I'd love to see him managing the Reds, I would have a hard to stomaching the daily Robinson bash threads.

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  3. #17
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I wonder if any of the fans who booed Robinson and wrote the letters to the editor were the same ones who wanted DeWitt gone a few months later?
    Nope. They were the same folks (or decendents) who have constantly ripped on Ken Griffey, Jr.

    My uncle used to say that Cincinnati didn't deserve a superstar because of the way they treated Robinson. If he were alive today, he'd be saying the same thing about Griffey.

    That article indicates that fans in Cincinnati didn't pan the trade. I can testify that fans in WV, VA, and other parts of Ohio ranted and raved about it--over an over.
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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    It made my dad and grandfather angry every time they saw Robinson in an Oriole uniform.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  5. #19
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    As much as I'd love to see him managing the Reds, I would have a hard to stomaching the daily Robinson bash threads.
    The Robinson bashing threads would pale in comparison to the current number of Narron bashing threads.

    Robinson > Narron.

    Simple equation.

  6. #20
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    What an incredible figure in the history of this game. How many more World Championships might the Reds have won if he had remained here? How much more revered would he be if he had spent his entire career with one team? None of that can be fixed now. But, I would also love to see the relationship between the Reds and Robinson mended before he retires. Some kind of role with the organization would be great.

  7. #21
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    The Robinson bashing threads would pale in comparison to the current number of Narron bashing threads.

    Robinson > Narron.

    Simple equation.
    I agree as far as Robinson > Narron, but I have little doubt that as soon as the team would start struggling the Robinson bash threads will come out in full force.

  8. #22
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    I wonder if Fleepy was the infielder he was taking to task for dogging it in the article? Odds anyone?
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  9. #23
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    You sound like you were in the minority. From Redleg Journal:

    "Although this was one of the worst deals the Reds ever completed, it received almost no negative fan reaction when it was first announced. Cincinnati's first black star, Robinson never seemed to do enough to please Reds fans no matter how well he performed. During the 1965 season, letters to the editor in newspapers throughout Reds country demanded that he be traded, and in August, Robinson was booed so excessvely at Crosley Field that Dave Sisler made a public appeal for the fans to lay off of the star outfielder... By mid-season in 1966, Reds fans wanted to run Bill DeWitt out of town for generating the deal as the Reds slumped with a losing record and the Orioles - led by Robinson - were running away with the American League crown. Robinson won the American League MVP award, led the Orioles to the World Championship, and won the Triple Crown, by hitting .316 with 49 homers and 122 RBIs."

    I wonder if any of the fans who booed Robinson and wrote the letters to the editor were the same ones who wanted DeWitt gone a few months later?
    I remember some fans being down on Robby and Vada Pinson during the 1961 WS. much like some fans of today.

    I don't remember ever knowing anyone wanting to see him traded and never met anyone who liked the deal.

    Dick Sisler.

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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Nope. They were the same folks (or decendents) who have constantly ripped on Ken Griffey, Jr.

    My uncle used to say that Cincinnati didn't deserve a superstar because of the way they treated Robinson. If he were alive today, he'd be saying the same thing about Griffey.

    That article indicates that fans in Cincinnati didn't pan the trade. I can testify that fans in WV, VA, and other parts of Ohio ranted and raved about it--over an over.
    Through diligent research I have found some old RedsZone posts made during the 1965 season:

    "Robinson strikes out too much" (he had seasons where he ranked 2nd, 3rd and 5th in the NL in strikeouts). "Robinson has a bad attitude." "The Reds need pitching, that's what wins championships."
    "Would you trade Robinson for Pappas? Sure, but the Orioles would never do that deal."
    "Robinson is an old thirty."
    "The Reds need to trade Robinson and hope to get value."
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    good article, thanks for posting.

    Except in Cincinnati (who knew what they lost) and Baltimore, Frank Robinson is constantly underrated by national media. He had the misfortune of playing at the same time as Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Mickey Mantle, but was very nearly their equal.

    Baseball will miss Frank Robby.
    Frank Robinson was not named as a member of the All Century Team. The outfielder whose omission from the All Century Team created the greatest controversy, with family members denouncing the omission, was Roberto Clemente. Clemente received the most votes from fans of any outfielder not chosen to the team, and his family was vocal in their condemnation of major league baseball in adding Stan Musial, who also fell short in fan voting, to the team rather than Clemente.
    Stan Musial was a much greater player than Roberto Clemente, and the complaints of the Clemente family, which exhibiting family pride, also exhibited a lack of baseball knowledge and, yes, a lack of grace and class. However, Frank Robinson was also a greater player than Clemente. I never read of Robinson ever complaining about his omission from the All Century Team, even though he had a much greater justification to complain.
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  12. #26
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Yeah, when he took the field, he came to kill you. No quarter asked, none given.

    It used to make him furious when players would fraternize before the game.

    He'll always be a Red to me.
    Sport magazine polled players after the 1970 season, asking them to select "baseball's greatest competitor." Robinson finished third, Bob Gibson was second, and Pete Rose was first.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #27
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    What is really sad to me is that we traded him away before he could cement himself as a Red forever. Most would think of him as an Oriole. Bench is a Red, Rose is a Red, Morgan is a Red, Foster a Red, Larkin a Red, Robinson...for most is an Oriole. Unfortunate.
    That's true, even though Robinson played more major league seasons as a Red than anywhere else (ten seasons as a Red, six seasons as an Oriole). Robinson also had the majority of his hits, HRs and RBI as a Red. His Reds number was justly retired.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  14. #28
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    What an incredible figure in the history of this game. How many more World Championships might the Reds have won if he had remained here? How much more revered would he be if he had spent his entire career with one team? None of that can be fixed now. But, I would also love to see the relationship between the Reds and Robinson mended before he retires. Some kind of role with the organization would be great.
    I absolutely agree that I would like to see a better relationship between Robinson and the Reds.
    As for the loss of Robinson costing the Reds World Championships, Rob Neyer has an article on that subject in his "Big Book Of Baseball Blunders" at pages 139-142.
    In 1966, 1967, 1968 and 1971 the Reds finished so far behind the NL pennant winner (-18, -14 1/2, -14 and -11) that Neyer doesn't believe that the presence of Robinson would've been enough to produce a title.
    The loss of Robinson may have cost the Reds the 1969 NL West title, as the Reds only finished 4 games behind and Robinson was still near his peak, finishing 3rd in the AL MVP voting. He had 32 Win Shares that season. However the guys who played the outfield and firstbase for the 1969 Reds in 1969 weren't bad: Pete Rose had 37 Win Shares, Lee May had 26 and Alex Johnson had 19. Johnson had come to the Reds in exchange for Dick Simpson, whom the Reds had acquired in the Pappas deal. The Reds shortstop in 1969 was Woody Woodward, whom the Reds had acquired in 1968 in a trade with Atalanta, giving the Braves Pappas. The Reds also acquired Tony Cloninger (they would've been better without him) and Clay Carroll in the 1968 deal with the Braves. In short, without having had Pappas and Simpson as trading chips, the 1969 Reds would not have had Johnson, Carroll and Woodward, so having Robinson instead might not have brought a title to Cincinnati.
    If Robinson had been a Red in 1970, he would've been in leftfield rather than the platoon of Bernie Carbo and Hal MacRae. Perhaps that would have made a difference in the World Series, especially since Robinson's presence in the Reds lineup would've meant he would not have been in the lineup of the Orioles, or whoever replaced the O's as AL champs because of their lack of Robinson's services. But again the Reds would not have Carroll, who won the Reds only game in the actual Series, or Woodward, and they could not have traded Alex Johnson to acquire Jim McGlothlin.
    Likewise, maybe Robinson could have been a difference maker in the 1972 World Series, but he was 36 years old by then. To have played him regularly at that stage of his career, the Reds probably would have had to play him at firstbase and leave Tony Perez at thirdbase. Under this scenario, Clay Carroll, who lead the NL in saves in 1972, would not have been a Red.
    The Robinson for Pappas, Baldshun and Simpson trade made by Bill DeWittwas a disaster, but Bob Howsam later salvaged much from the trade, and it may not have cost the Reds any titles.
    Last edited by RedsBaron; 09-30-2006 at 07:48 AM.
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  15. #29
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    But, I would also love to see the relationship between the Reds and Robinson mended before he retires. Some kind of role with the organization would be great.
    It already has been mended. There are no problems now between Robinson and the Reds.
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  16. #30
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Wash. Post: After So Long, So Long

    Frank would make one heck of a bench coach for somebody, if he wanted to stay in uniform. For sentimental reasons, I would love to see him in a Reds uniform before he totally hangs it up. It would be the final sign that all is well between Frank and the Reds and I really feel he could add something to the team. I would much rather see Bucky Dent coaching third than Mark Berry. I have never thought he was much of a third base coach.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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